Calling Dentists and people who “know” teeth

[TheCanaryInThePurpleSkirt]

I’ve had three sets of 6 upper crowns. First at 19, second at 36 and now at 62, hopefully the last lot. I had kidney problems as a baby/child/adult and was weaned on tetracyclines and many other drugs. Three lots of surgery and the teeth were done aged 19. I come from a family of fabulous teeth so, just bad luck, I guess.

All of my work was necessary. I have a private dentist and pay through Denplan. It cost me personally only £1000 for lab costs. I know I’m lucky to have had the work done at such a cost.

This last set are atrocious. I’ve had endless pain and been back and forth for three months with bite/sensitivity issues. Two top front ones “move”; I can FEEL the cement crackling. One of them bleeds still, three months on. I can’t tear stuff like say, garlic bread because the pain is excruciating. Cold/sweet stuff seems to go through the crowns right to the nerves. I’ve had so many “tweaks”. Shaving bits off, polishing, shaving a bit more, a top retainer a bottom soft guard. Endless X-rays, injections, moulds etc. In short, my new zirconia teeth look amazing. But…They’re so thin now that my dentist said “try to keep your mouth slightly open to prevent touching top and bottom”. How am I supposed to remember to do that!

I actually have no idea now if I’m imaging it all, now. The heartbeat in my teeth and nerves that feel “live” whether I’m eating or not. I asked the dentist “how is it that the laboratory had moulds of my teeth/bite and yet, my new zirconia came back needing such massive amounts of adjustment? This has never happened with previous sets”. I was told it’s because the lab makes them “high” now (🤷🏼‍♀️)”. So, they are made not to fit my moulds. No wonder I feel like I’m wearing someone else’s teeth, then.

Previous sets were porcelain, them metal backs on porcelain and now, zirconia.

I’m now very very distressed. I’m too old for this.

What can they actually Do to sort this out?

Hi OP, we're just bumping this thread for you - hopefully someone will be along soon with a bit of advice and support.

Thanks @JoMumsnet
Ive another appointment on Wednesday and I need advice.

Good old Mumsnet!

Well I don’t have any experience or expertise but my first thought would be that you have spent your whole life since 19 wearing these. You have had two sets previously neither of which you have mentioned have caused even a small amount of the problems these have.

that tells me that
1 you are your own expert with decades of experience
2 you know that these are crap, and you know that the dentist is fobbing you off!

im sorry it sounds terrible.

I would look into your rights but if possible I’d tell them they are not fit for purpose and you want a full refund or a brand new set immediately or you will take it to the dental ombudsman.

Wow @Ginkypig , that’s an opinion! Thanks so much. I’m going to need to dig deep I think and say it like it is!

I honestly hadn’t thought of it that way. I am the expert on my mouth and I have 43yrs experience of dental crowns. If this is “progress” and the huge leaps forward in dentistry over these 4 decades, I don’t know how it can be righted but, they need to come up with better than this mouth I’m “wearing” right now.

I have such a lot of dental stuff. TePe, floss, Waterpik, various brushes (sensitive and floss action), loads of different recommendations on tooth paste, small travel tubes in my handbag to use in the day.

I can do no more.

sorry it might have come across a bit hardcore 😳 I’m just angry at the lack of support for you.

Exactly this isn’t on you!

this is a faulty product that just so happens to be in your mouth!

if this was a cooker or a tv you would be right on it telling them to get it replaced or refund you.

I don’t know what you’re rights are asi would have thought you can’t complain as if it was a faulty product but you know the sentiment im trying to convey.

look up your rights and get yourself armed with information and don’t allow them to leave you in this state. It’s disgusting behaviour on their part and you deserve better!

I’m thinking I need an independent appraisal. A second opinion. I’ve had another dentist in the practice look at it and was told to keep wearing the mouth guards and try to keep my top/bottom teeth from touching. How??? How does a person do that?

I'm wondering if there's some sort of dental ombudsman in the UK you could call for advice? There must be!

https://dcs.gdc-uk.org/

this is for private treatment. there's a separate one for NHS, by the way.

@monstaar Thank you

What scares me is, it’s SO hard finding a dentist and I’ve trusted them all of these years. I hate to be the hear sink patient and where will I go then, if I make an official complaint?

you don't need to make an official complaint as yet, just give them a call without naming names or surgeries and ask their advice as a starter. it might give you a bit of clarity on what your next step could be and how you could be affected by reporting.

@GreekDogRescue what’s the “Thanks” for? 😊

3 lots of crowns over 43 years, means extensive drilling and each time, more of your natural tooth structure, however conservative the operating dentist is, will inevitably be reduced. Every time a tooth is drilled, whether for a small filling or an extensive inlay prep, the tooth's integrity and vitality is compromised.
Loss of vitality /pulpal hypersensitivity are all known complications of crown preparations. The symptoms you describe-hypersensitivity-tie in with this.
You could have the zirconium crowns taken off and replaced with bonded porcelain crowns, sounds like this is what you had previously. But your aesthetics will be compromised and, there is no guarantee that your symptoms will be alleviated. I think at some point endodontics/ root canal/RCT will be needed OP.
Most dentists would think you've done well to avoid having any RCT in those 6 upper anterior teeth if you've had them crowned for the past 43 years.
Doesn't sound like your dentist has done anything wrong, unfortunately there can be complications with this type of advanced interventive dentistry.
There is no such thing as an ombudsman for dentistry. That poster hasn't got a clue.
I mean you can contact the GDC if you wish, if you think your dentist has been negligent. Doesn't sound like it, but maybe risks and benefits haven't been spelled out to you before embarking on the latest crownwork. Possibly there have been communication issues? You must have signed a consent form, risks and benefits are usually all detailed there.

Thank you so much @umdontdothat

I needed a response from (I’m presuming) a dentist? My dentist has always been good. Have been with them many years. I agree, he has not been neglectful in the treatment. However, I never had a treatment “plan”. Suggestions were made over several meetings and I went home to consider it. My treatment was done for sensitivity but at no point was I told it might potentially get worse. I did not sign a consent document.

I did ask (last week) if this was caused by the “prep” work. He told me that due to previous preparatory work over the years, very very little was required of him.

He has suggested all crowns going in joined together but that idea scares me too. How can I have RCT done through tough zirconia crowns?

I despair.

Might it be possible that I’m allergic to materials used/the zirconia?

Unlikely allergic; also your symptoms -sensitivity to cold-are typical symptoms of reversible/irreversible pulpitis. Usually you'd have those symptoms for some length of time, then it becomes sensitivity to heat and then eventually loss of vitality.
I think a full and frank discussion about the prognosis of these teeth is the next step.
I'm astonished that you didn't sign a consent form. That is really unusual these days as dentistry is so litigious; I include NHS dentistry in this.
Doesn't matter that your dentist had to do little /any further prep to the original preps. He /She has needed to drill off the last lot of crowns. Air turbines used on a tooth, regardless of the water flow can be enough to irreversibly damage the nerve chamber. It doesn't matter if all the drilling is in the crown material-porcelain bonded etc.
Hope you get it sorted.

At my appointment this Thursday, they want to do a scan (I think) and moulds for a softer top night guard/retainer. I feel like they’re welding and patching up the hull of The Titanic. A lost cause now. Why would you do a treatment of such magnitude if the condition I presented with was mass sensitivity.

What can actually be done? Am I going to need dentures? I’ve been passed now to a brand new dentist as mine left last week. That doesn’t help and fills me with dread tbh.

Thank you for taking the time to help.

I would get a second opinion from a different dentist completely. Different surgery, before you get anything done.

It’s a bit Catch22.

I called Denplan today. Any second opinion is at my own cost. I can’t switch dentist unless ALL recent work has been completed. I was told that “it’s hard to get an unbiased 2nd opinion as dentists will stick together”. I have no choice but to put myself in their hands and see what they can offer to help me.

It’s so difficult because it’s a good surgery and my dentist/all the staff are lovely.

From what I understand the crowns were replaced because of sensitivity that had started with the old crowns . Unfortunately sensitivity may be the first sign of the nerves inside some or all of the teeth dying off. That may be because 25% of teeth that are crowned go onto need root treatment , or it may be that you are grinding or clenching hard on these teeth even before they were replaced .

Replacing the crowns is a good first start to trying to settle the sensitivity . However if the nerves have become so irritated replacing the crowns may not be enough to settle things down .

Sensitivity in teeth can be due to reversible or irreversible pulpitis (inflammation of the nerves inside some). Unfortunately there is no way of knowing if it is reversible or irreversible except by waiting.

Ultimately if the sensitivity gets worse or doesn’t settle then ultimately you will need root treatment . The problem is no dentist wants to do root treatment unless it is absolutely unavoidable. The reasons are is that root treatment is not 100% sucessful , it makes the tooth more brittle and likely to break , particularly if you grind your teeth.

So the dentist is in a catch 22 situation , you had sensitive teeth , they replaced the crowns in the hope it would settle , the pain you are having now is worse , but it is a fine judgement between trying obvious solutions ie new gum shields, sensitive toothpastes etc and going into radical solutions which will lessen the lifespan of these teeth.

The crackling sensation does sound very much like you are grinding/clenching hard onto these teeth . If it was the cement the crowns would be coming out as the forces on teeth are enormous.

Bleeding is a seperate issue , that is because plaque is being left around the gum and tepe brushes used effectively should sort it out.

It may be that root treatment of some or all of these teeth is the solution , or adjustment of your bite , although as the sensitivity had started before you had the crowns replaced any bite adjustment may be very extensive . But be aware root treatment has its problems as described above . In other words your problems sound as if they are not straight forward .

@Lollygaggle Thanks for your reply.

The start of all of this latest replacement of crowns was … My bottom teeth were being worn down by them wearing, over 28yrs against my metal backed upper crowns fitted in 1996. So, the dentist bonded these bottom teeth. It wasn’t aesthetically pleasing but it sorted the lower teeth out very well. The metal crowns (PFM) were replaced so that, having little to no “free space” in my bite, the PFM being replaced would not cause further wear/discomfort. There were some issues with top crown sensitivity/ageing/aesthetics but NOT to the degree experienced now.

I think it’s trauma and eventual pulp inflammation as a result of three lots of crowns over 40 plus years. Further worrying is that the bonding to the bottom teeth which provided a comfort I hadn’t experienced in many many years, has been drilled/shaved repeatedly in the last weeks and I’m loath to say that they too are almost back to pre-work discomfort and sensitivity.

It all feels like a very expensive waste of time.

Metal Backings to crowns are very thin ,they will not, on their own , cause that much wear to your lower teeth. However grinding and clenching brings the lower teeth in contact with the porcelain parts of the crowns and the enamel of other teeth which will wear teeth.

This is starting to, very much , to sound like an occlusal (bite) problem , exacerbated by grinding/clenching. The problem may be that although your front lower and upper teeth were built up to deal with wear , your back teeth may also have moved over the years to adjust to the wear on your front teeth. Therefore when your front teeth and crowns were built up there was more “pressure” on these than previously . In this case careful evaluation of your bite needs to be made and possible adjustment made of your back teeth might be necessary. This is possibly why models of your teeth have been made , to evaluate the bite , and why different types of gum shields are being made.

If this is the case it’s a really complex problem to solve, which may need to work not just to these front teeth.

And this is part of the difficulty. I was told the bottoms had worn down by the metal bite. It made sense at the time which is why I didn’t go with PFM again.

And I had a night bite guard which was assessed by my dentist and I was told that there was no evidence of grinding and clenching. Like anyone, life’s stresses can cause tension but it wasn’t something evident from the guard.

“it’s hard to get an unbiased 2nd opinion as dentists will stick together”.

That sounds like a fob off to me to avoid them looking like something is wrong with their surgery / treatment.

I would literally just book a private check up at another unrelated surgery and pay. I think the fee is around £50 for a simple checkup. A fee worth paying to see.

I’ve been this afternoon. Got antibiotics (?? pulpitis) and had ex rays which show the root/nerve to both front upper crowned teeth is in the process of dying. Rt worse than left. It could be that the rest are experiencing referred pain.

Have been referred to the dental hospital as the bite is not in any way good and very deep putting pressure on the sensitive teeth.

Good grief.