Why are (some) people so against WFH?

[thistimenextyearwellbemillionaires]

I see so many threads on here about why people shouldn't be able to WFH and I don't really understand why people would be against it

For most people it seems make sense with their home life & financially as saving on commuting costs. When my children were young I was 5 days in the office and had to rush back from town to collect them and it was so stressful, it must be great for people not to have to do that now.

I know some people might take the piss a bit, but this happened when people were in the office full time too, there would always be someone always in late, leaving early etc.

I am lucky that my company is hybrid and no plans to change that. I've been offered another role recently which was a big pay rise but 5 days in the office and have decided to stay where I am. Where I work, whether you're in the office or at home you're expected to produce the same work and results and if you don't you'd be out so they're no slouch in terms of expectations of their employees.

Interested to know people's honest opinions.

Yes they did, basically. But they can hire who they want.

apart from the fact that they were absolutely idiotic to say this out loud, as it is direct age discrimination, that they could be sued for, how on earth do they expect people to gain "years of experience" if they don't hire anyone under the age of 50? Or do they expect other companies to do the hard work of training individuals and then poach them, while complaining there's no company loyalty anymore?

The idea that someone aged 45 who could have been working full time since 1995 is apparently flaky and unable to talk to people is hilarious. WFH regularly/solely is comparatively recent, so the idea that everyone between the ages of 25-49 has somehow 'forgotten' their social interaction skills after 4 years of WFH despite having spent the rest of their prior career NOT doing so is ridiculous.

In most workplaces having a varied workforce (age, sex, background, race, etc) is seen as a good thing because you get different viewpoints and experiences and staff can learn from each other. I'd hate to be in an office of just 'women in their 30s' for example - yes I'd probably have a lot in common with them, but most of my friends and peers fall within that bracket already, work is my main opportunity to get to know people outside that, I love chatting with both the recent school leavers and the 60 year old men, it gives me different viewpoints of life, and is fun (not to mention educational!).

Being siloed into our respective echo chambers where we only listen to people with the exact same views as us and then are surprised with election results or whatever is one of the biggest problems in modern society. Your DH's company sounds incredibly short sighted.

wfh doesn’t mean you’re invisible to higher management.

It’s true that junior people and trainees benefit from being in a workplace, but in my industry, people keep saying this as if it means only trainees and junior people need to be in the office and in face it’s regarded as a form of slackness to work from home. In fact, trainees need to learn FROM the managers. I like hybrid a lot but I wish managers would show up more

They're not meant to break the law (Equality Act) though.

I agree with that entirely. I'm 60, and have been in the workplace for 42 years! From day one, I was using computers. Back in 1982, it was a Commodore PET! At home my first home computer was a Sinclair ZX80, in 1980.

In every firm I've worked at, I've helped implement and develop their IT systems. Back in 1982 I re-programmed a nominal ledger double entry book-keeping system into a sales ledger by editing the "Basic" coding. At my third job in 1989, the firm had no IT at all, and I was the one who chose and over-saw the purchase of several computers and printers and networking them all, and learned quite of a bit on Novell network coding. In my stint in industry I selected and oversaw a company wide "operations" integrated computer system encompassing all aspects, i.e. accounting, job costing, stock control, production planning, sales invoices, purchase orders, etc which replaced several home made spreadsheet systems that had no integration.

In the mid 90s, I installed our firm's first email system on Lotus Notes, and we embraced telephone and the most basic online business banking in the late 90s.

I was one of the first accountancy firms in the country to have a website around 2000/2001 that included online data entry - it was pretty cutting edge back then. Today I am constantly using the internet, zoom, teams, etc.

I've never taken any kind of IT nor computing course, it's all just what I've learned on the job. I qualified as a chartered accountant at a time when computing wasn't on the curriculum. I've learned it all just by doing and teaching myself.

It's quite a joke that people seem to think anyone middle aged and above has little or no IT skills or experience. Lots of us oldies were using computers before the younger generation were even born!

Some people genuinely see it as a bad thing. They may have experienced increased inefficiency in a service they have used, public sector for example and attribute that to WFH (often without knowledge of other factors effecting service like higher demand and tighter budgets).

Yes - but quite often the poorer service is due to reduced staffing numbers, not the location of those staff. My organisation removed desk phones during COVID, we all now have work mobiles, and if you call me you'll get the same customer experience whether I'm at home or not. But if I'm already on a call when you ring me, you won't get through (nothing to do with WFH, just that I can only take one call at a time). I think most people understand this, but choose not to .....

I've been talking about crap customer service ONCE I've got through to someone. HMRC has been suffering very long call waiting times for years, long before covid, so the long delay of an hour or two on hold is something I'm used to. It's the crap service (or lack of it) once you've got through that the more recent problem, usually due to kids, animals, door bells, etc in the background meaning the call handling isn't concentrating on the phone call.

I found WFH depressing, it's cold, I over eat, I struggle to bother to make an effort with my appearance and feel worse. I sit thinking I should be working and that I should be cleaning or washing or something to make it worthwhile being at home.

It's convenient with nipping out to collect kids and saves money on petrol but I don't like it.

I've been talking about crap customer service ONCE I've got through to someone. HMRC has been suffering very long call waiting times for years, long before covid, so the long delay of an hour or two on hold is something I'm used to. It's the crap service (or lack of it) once you've got through that the more recent problem, usually due to kids, animals, door bells, etc in the background meaning the call handling isn't concentrating on the phone call.

That's really poor, you should never see/hear that sort of thing on a call, its very unprofessional.

What a depressing thread that so many people say it's down to jealousy 🙄.

I mostly wfh and much prefer to be in.

Well I can't get promotion unless my boss moves on etc. however I got full bonus last year as met all my goals and expectations. my work is most certainly not invisible. I may not be talking about it every single day nor do I not have to speak to my manager every day buy if I didn't do my work it most certainly would be noticed. I have have just finished my big project for this year which along with my team will save the company 1.5 mil and I did the majority of my work by wfh. so defo not invisible

I will tell you that is nit the case when I am on calls at home. but when I am in the office on calls you can hear the person next too me and across from me also talking. yoi can hear the doors from the meetings rooms and offices behind open and slamming shut. if a meeting finishes early you can hear all the people leaving the meeting room and having conversations. at home I have peace and quiet. in work I have constant noise

Doesn't that depend on the circumstances?

Well yes, in a way, but it seems as though many people, instead of thinking that WFH was never going to be a permanent arrangement, have come to the assumption that WFH is the new normal. They think they have every right to continue to do so, and that their employers have no right to expect them in the office from time to time.

I agree with that entirely. I'm 60, and have been in the workplace for 42 years! From day one, I was using computers. Back in 1982, it was a Commodore PET! At home my first home computer was a Sinclair ZX80, in 1980.

I'm 63, not in the workplace quite so long because of a couple of degrees in the first half of the 80s - computers during those were mainframes (ICL 1906A, Honeywell Multics doing fortran); boyfriend (long since DH ) got a Commodore 64 which we played with using Basic. First job had various DEC VAXes , second had those too and both had eye watering lay expensive graphics kit - Evan's and Sutherland vector graphics! But then we got lovely silicon graphics workstations. Like in Jurassic park, and they 'only' cost the same as our first three bedroom house

It's astonishing how much we were able to do with what now seems astonishingly little. Of course along the way we were early adopters of using the Internet and email for real work. And so by 1990 when circumstances demanded it I was able to work remotely, albeit inconveniently, and by 1995 much better, with a broadband line. By 2020 our systems worked pretty seamlessly regardless of location even though most were office based so for many the main issue was whether or not they’d been allowed to take their chairs home with them.

I was talking to someone about sons tuition fees payment schedule a few months ago. There was a cacophony of barking, because someone was at the front door of the house the person was working from. Turned out she had three dogs who got very excited at visitors. I thought it sweet but I'm a dog lover. It must be very hard if a baby started crying though because I'd want the person to see to their child before dealing with me.

I’ve been in the workplace since the late 80s and using computers for that entire time too, from terminals on mainframes through myriad different systems, never had any difficulty picking any of them up and am far more competent than many of my younger colleagues. I did O level computer studies and that taught me how a computer works, which has stood me in good stead ever since. I have never worked in IT but embrace everything technology does for us in the workplace. I am NOT sitting behind a typewriter looking for the carbon paper FFS.

Nope, it's saying that one shouldn't start off with assumptions either way. In particular, that it's unhealthy to work from the position that the relationships with people who happen to be employed by the same organistion are not only valuable, but more valuable than the ones you might choose to use your time for instead.

Which goes to my point that the problem is when people make assumptions. Yours is another example of how relationships with people who happen to have the same employer aren't automatically valuable or beneficial, and can often be actively damaging. Given that some of the bullying was evidently in the office, working in person was clearly no protection against it either.

I have already commented on this thread, but last night I was with a group of friends that I made many many years ago because we all worked together. I also met my husband at work over 40 years ago.
These social interactions are very important for young people who may or may not have an established set of friends. Surely being friends with the people you work with can lead to people being happier in their job.

More social
Can learn better from colleagues
Can sort out / arrange things better

Those who are commenting about the social aspect and making friends at work: unfortunately this is completely dependent on the type of people you work with.

I have in my career worked with a couple of really great teams where I was able to build friendships and enjoyed seeing them socially. But that was the exception...

The majority of people I have met at work have been totally untrustworthy or very different from me, ie not people I could relate to.

Two people in my current team took the first opportunity they could to stab me in the back although I went out of my way to support them. My manager was awful when I tool some sick leave for something life threatening. The organisation is general is rather toxic and there is a very high staff turnover.

So for me being able to work from home most of the time means I avoid some of the toxicity of that workplace and don't have to pretend I like that any of these people being saying a few platitudes at the beginning of a Zoom meeting...

Depends on whether you work with backstabbing narcissists or not.

I prefer to choose my friends myself, not have my employer choose them for me.

I've had the opposite experience, one or two shifty backstabbing types but I've always made friendships at work and most people have been fine, so I would really miss the social aspect a lot if I had to WFH. Sorry you have had so many shitty ones and ones you couldn't get on with.

Personally I've been at both ends. I'm godparent to the child of one friend made through work, in another job I've had a settlement agreement. It really is a vast spectrum.