Where is everyone going to charge their electric vehicle?

[TeapotCollection]

On the way to work I saw a car on charge, parked on the road with the cable trailing over the footpath. I’d be worried about someone tripping over it, or someone stealing the cable! But then I thought what are people meant to do?

Hadn’t thought about it before but this just isn’t going to work is it?

An electric car can easily do a 2.5 hour journey. I reckon ours could do a 5 hour journey without needing a charge.

So before the journey you charge the car in preparation. Where do you do that?

This. Plus the council have put a fucking bike hangar directly outside our house, so we can’t park outside it anymore, when the muppets could have put it on the opposite side of the road where there are no houses.

@FlowerBlowing

But stopping for even that amount of time so often isn't going to work when going long distances. We ride a motorcycle rather than driving normally and its range is approximately 4 hours in optimal conditions, this is perfect as we stop after about 3 refuel and use the loo, this takes around 15 minutes, we then go a further 3 hours, refuel, stop for food, then the remainder, we commonly go 4-500 miles in a day. Battery motorcycles have ranges under 100 miles!

Oh, OK! I wondered if the technology might improve to that point!

People who don't have off-street parking can't fill their petrol cars at home can they?

Evs need charging more frequently,but then there are already far more charging points than there are petrol/deisel stations. And the infrastructure is growing rapidly meaning the number of people for whom electric is less as opposed to as convenient or more convenient, is shrinking.

On long journeys, our ev has a longer range than my bladder so it's not an issue 😄

Yup, we've just bought a brand new petrol car and our other car is a couple of years old and is also petrol. We're "future proof" for the next decade or two now. Couldn't risk not buying modern cars and then having little or no choice if we wanted to buy petrol in the next few years as the ridiculous deadline looms. Our cars tend to last a decade or two, so we're fine now right up to the late 2030s by which time hopefully there'll be a decent national infrastructure, but we'll be in our 70s by then so may no longer be driving anyway.

It's interesting how many people are saying they have "on street" charging near their homes. I'd love to know where as there's nothing like that around where we live. Just the odd couple of charging points in car parks and the odd couple of spaces on some main shopping streets but not others. I presume our council are languishing behind compared with other more forward thinking councils??

For me the issue with this debate is people see how ev is now, and can't imagine what it could be like with investment so feel it can't work.

Then there is uncertainty if it's worth the investment at all because it's not clear to most of us if it really helps the environment.

The thing that interests me is that a lot of countries are developing smaller, cheaper evs (fiesta sized) and seem to be succesful, but the European manufacturers seem to be focused on bigger/luxury suv type.

I keep thinking japan or china is going to release a load of cheap small evs here, but they dont. So it's all still very expensive.

We charge all over the place. I charge at home, there's free chargers at the shopping mall which will add a bit, DH went to an out of town place with fast chargers the other day so he topped it up there. If we're visiting FIL we charge at the chargers at his block of flats. En route or if we are visiting someone without charging like grandmother we'll go to a petrol station and fast charge there.

@Holly20000 well if it's 2.5 hours each way then that's a 5 hour journey?

This is the issue! Why would I buy an electric car - which is more expensive than the ICE equivalent- and then pay at least as much if not more to charge it than I would have paid for petrol in the equivalent ICE car?
The cost of public charging is a massive barrier to uptake.

As battery capcity increases, there will be less and less need to charge cars - we only charge ours once a week. A lot of people will rely on public charging points or charging at the office rather than at home.

Also, it's very difficult to steal a cable, they lock in place when you lock the car and you need to be stood right next to the car socket to unlock the cable (at least for my car).

People who don't have off-street parking can't fill their petrol cars at home can they?

No - they go to a petrol station where they can fill and go in about three minutes.

Heaven forbid you having to endure the slightest inconvenience for a very good cause.

https://www.eta.co.uk/news/the-electric-car-with-a-removable-battery-charges-like-an-e-bike

Turns out my idea was not so laughable after all!

Evs need charging more frequently,but then there are already far more charging points than there are petrol/deisel stations.

Are there more charging points than petrol/diesel pumps, though? Fuel stations have multiple pumps.

And how long is a vehicle attached to a charging point? Compared to the less than 5 minutes a vehicle is parked at a pump?

There are chargers at my workplace but with a charge for overstaying a 4 hour slot - the problem is I work a 10 hour day, with half of that being an NHS clinic. The only way I'd be able to park to charge would be to arrive early but then I wouldn't be able to move the vehicle within 4 hours as I'm in clinic. Parking is overflowing so very high chance that chargers would be in use or blocked by lunchtime, and even if I did go out to charge after clinic then I'd be moving my car 3 times in a shift! So a totally unreliable service.

Electric cars are not for people like you. You stick with your petrol car for as long as you can but a lot of other people are perfectly capable of adapting to life with an electric car.

It’s called change and it’s nothing to be afraid of.

I wonder what percentage of your car journeys are 700 mile journeys with camping gear on board ? Not very many I suspect but don’t let common sense get in the way.

Me too! And I have an allocated disabled space outside but everyone just parks in it when I move my car (painted in white, so a courtesy space).

Also, there are only two lampposts in my street, so that won't work either.

You don't have to wait until the battery is empty before recharging. If there's a convenient charge point when your battery is 50% then take 15 minutes then to charge up to 80%...

It is a different way of thinking as with petrol you can just not think about it until you're empty because (for now) petrol stations are everywhere. Maybe EV will be like that in the future but at the moment there is a tiny amount of planning/forethought involved. I think it's worth it personally. I love having an EV. It's fun to drive and I like that I can sit with the engine running and not worry about polluting my vicinity.

I'm not sure I'd call that a car though!

In reality, car batteries are getting bigger (to meet the desire for longer range), and if they were easy to remove then they're just a target for theft.

I think the way things are going is much more towards batteries which charge faster. Think how long it took to charge your phone 5-10 years ago vs the speed you can charge it now (using a fast charger/the right cable).

Either way, it will only get easier to charge cars.

About 200 houses, of which about half have no driveway. Of those probably two thirds have a car, and about a quarter of the cars are electric. So maybe 15 EVs. I think there are four lamppost chargers on the street, and about four on the next street and the one after that. There’s almost always one free. I think most people only charge once a week or so.

If there were more EVs they would just add more chargers? Only about one in five lampposts have a charger right now so it would be easy to add more.

ETA: this is London suburbs so it’s not a matter of “how many cars per household.” The local rule is you can’t have more than one parking permit per household, and nobody has a driveway big enough for more than one car. Lots of houses have no car at all.

Electric cars are not for people like you.

This was rather my point.

The thing is, there seem to be a lot of people they are not for. It would certainly explain the flagging in demand that has caused the ongoing ruckus between UK vehicle manufacturers and the government.

I think half the issue is that both governments, current and previous, have been very reactive in sense of declaring a goal without thinking about the current logistics. It's going to be a big task to get the country to a place where the majority can run and sustain an EV.... even without thinking about the cost of buying one.

Families on a lower budget will find buying an older pre-owned EV much riskier than a standard ICE car. Mileage will be key. EV battery replacement, especially on older models is expensive.

My dp looked into and almost brought a second hand EV last year. Granted it is the US and mileage of cars is crazy, but the car was a decent price. However that was because of limited shelf life left in the battery... A replacement battery for that car would have cost anywhere between $12-15,000.
Instead went for a Dodge Challenger that was cheaper, had less mileage and even came with parts.

Also, I don't think much is pushed out about the environmental impact of battery production including raw materials and mining. Maybe because we don't directly see it like we do with ICE, because we as a country don't mass produce.
But as demand for technology, capacity etc increases that production burden will likely increase.
The world is still going to need to heavily invest in mining ingredients. All we are doing is changing the ingredients.

earth.org/environmental-impact-of-battery-production/

Anyone with a drive will be fine.
Those who do not have a drive will simply have to plan. The answer is always to charge in a car park that you pay to park in, or at shops or offices. Just at the point where people are ordering online and WFH.
If you live in London you will be fine. EV chargers are very unequally distributed. Wales is particularly lacking public EV chargers.

@MisoSalmonForLunch I have never seen a lamp post charger. I am surprised there is always a charger free though. Round here street parking is at a premium and you take the space you can get.
If I end up having an electric car I suspect I will have to make a weekly trip to the pub to charge the car in the EV in their car park.
I do know we will have to adapt and I will do it. But I do think people that bat away concerns tend to live in areas where charging an EV is much simpler.

It's never going to work unless the infrastructure changes to allow it to work.

There are still huge swathes of the country with no public chargers (or maybe two if you're lucky). Our town has one, for example. There are also rows and rows of houses without drives or private parking, so even if you can install a charger, there's no guarantee you'll be able to access it when needed.

The whole thing is a nice idea and may work beautifully in a city with lots of chargers, or somewhere with lots of private drives, but otherwise - no.

Where I am, there are think three chargers within 30 miles. That's it.