Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Will I get in trouble? (Tv licence)

26 replies

holdingspacedefyinggravity · 26/11/2024 12:36

I don’t watch the BBC at all, and I don’t watch anything live. So I’m fine to not have a licence.

My issue is that I’ve got smart tvs that come with all the tv apps automatically set up. So I do have the bbc app on all three tvs. There’s no log in details set up because I don’t watch it but I’m just worried that by having the app alone is enough for a fine.

OP posts:
SuperLoudPoppingAction · 26/11/2024 12:37

You should be able to delete the app but no it isn't. And you don't need to let them in anyway unless they have a warrant.

PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 12:41

How on earth would the bbc know you have an app on your tv that isn't even logged in?!Confused

holdingspacedefyinggravity · 26/11/2024 13:34

PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 12:41

How on earth would the bbc know you have an app on your tv that isn't even logged in?!Confused

A warrant that allows them access to my property probably.

OP posts:
PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 13:35

Why would the bbc have a warrant to enter your property?

holdingspacedefyinggravity · 26/11/2024 13:36

PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 13:35

Why would the bbc have a warrant to enter your property?

Because they can do that? 😐

OP posts:
PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 13:41

Warrants are not just handed out because the bbc asks for them. There needs to be some evidence.

LittleRedRidingHoody · 26/11/2024 13:42

OP I've recently had someone on the doorstep demand to check, and I showed them the app exists but isn't logged in. He was fine with that.

Such a pain though! I filled out the form TWICE to tell them we don't watch live TV - the man who came also insinuated I had avoided answering the door on his previous 'visits' - when I had been on the school run! I wonder how much longer this very old fashioned process will continue. No one I know watches live TV anymore! Much cheaper to have Netflix.

Thebusinesswilljuststealyoursoul · 26/11/2024 13:44

They can't enter your property without a court warrant and if you ring them and tell them you don't need a licence they can't apply for the warrant.
The BBC have done a good job of scaring people over the years, but the truth is they have almost no legal clout at all.

holdingspacedefyinggravity · 26/11/2024 13:44

PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 13:41

Warrants are not just handed out because the bbc asks for them. There needs to be some evidence.

Who said they were just handed out? Not one single person.

They can however apply to the courts for one should they believe you’re in breach of the licensing laws.

No idea why you’ve come on to just be argumentative.

OP posts:
Missreginafalange · 26/11/2024 13:49

OP the advice is not to engage nor let them in if they come to your door. It's not the BBC but a company that are doing it on their behalf, they get money for bullying you into doing what they ask when they have no legal clout at all. Yes they could get a warrant but highly unlikely considering they have no reason to unless you tell them or show them you are watching the apps.

PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 13:50

You're the one that brought up warrants. Why bring them up if you know they have no evidence to get one? Or do you think they have enough evidence to apply for one?
I wasn't being argumentative. Just very curious as to why you're so anxious about the bbc finding out you have an unlogged in app.

holdingspacedefyinggravity · 26/11/2024 13:55

PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 13:50

You're the one that brought up warrants. Why bring them up if you know they have no evidence to get one? Or do you think they have enough evidence to apply for one?
I wasn't being argumentative. Just very curious as to why you're so anxious about the bbc finding out you have an unlogged in app.

Because warrants are part of their process?! That’s why I brought them up probably.

And I’m asking if physically having the app would be enough evidence.

You’re draining. Just leave me alone please.

OP posts:
coffeesaveslives · 26/11/2024 13:55

They can only apply for a warrant if they have strong reason to believe that you don't have a license when you need one.

They won't just show up otherwise. If the licensing people knock just ignore them - they have no rights.

PoissonOfTheChrist · 26/11/2024 13:59

No helping some people. SMH.

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 26/11/2024 14:04

No physically having the app isn’t an issue and if you do a YouTube search someone’s probably done a tutorial on how to remove unwanted apps on the tv.

BeeCucumber · 26/11/2024 14:04

Physically having the apps is not evidence alone - registering and using the apps is. Delete the apps and do not think about it any further.

ByHardyRubyEagle · 26/11/2024 14:06

We went without a tv license for years because we only watched on demand services and internet tv, not bbc iplayer, you just can’t connect your tv to the aerial. They will keep sending you letters just to be cunts but you just have to declare that you don’t need one on the gov website.

SharpWriter · 26/11/2024 14:07

OP I've been wondering the same thing as I didn't renew my TV licence a couple of months ago as I hardly ever watch live TV so it wasn't worth the cost (£168 -wtf!!) I got a new smart TV yesterday and noticed the BBC stuff popping up.

Check out ChilliJonCarne on YouTube whose main subject is TV licensing. I'll have a look later to see what he says about the app issue.

Notmoog · 26/11/2024 14:07

holdingspacedefyinggravity · 26/11/2024 13:44

Who said they were just handed out? Not one single person.

They can however apply to the courts for one should they believe you’re in breach of the licensing laws.

No idea why you’ve come on to just be argumentative.

they're trying to be helpful.

Iheartmysmart · 26/11/2024 14:10

I’ve got the BBC app on my TV and have an old account but I don’t watch live TV or BBC iPlayer any more. I just filled in the form on the website saying I didn’t need a licence and haven’t heard anything since. You just need to renew your exemption every couple of years.

Notmoog · 26/11/2024 14:11

as PP was telling you, they can not apply for a warrant without evidence.
They can not obtain evidence unless you engage with them or let them into your house
They have no legal right to enter your house unless you invite them in.
You have no legal obligation to talk to them or sign anything.
Do not engage, politely say no thanks and shut the door.
Do not accept any paperwork from them.
Be nicer to people trying to give you advice

Notmoog · 26/11/2024 14:15

I'd encourage everybody to watch Chilli jon carne on youtube who talks you through how easy it is to be license free.
I'm heartened to see a large increase in people realising they simply don't need to pay this.

Irridescantshimmmer · 26/11/2024 14:30

No, you will not be in trouble for the bbc app on the tv, if it came already pre installed, however, to cover yourself delete it.

If its impossible to delete the bbc app then make sure that anyone else who uses your tv knows NOT to click on the bbc icon because all hell will break loose and the tv license authority will be up your ass like a shot.

NunyaBeeswax · 26/11/2024 14:41

holdingspacedefyinggravity · 26/11/2024 13:55

Because warrants are part of their process?! That’s why I brought them up probably.

And I’m asking if physically having the app would be enough evidence.

You’re draining. Just leave me alone please.

The process is thus:

Firstly, it isn't the BBC, it's Capita on behalf of TV Licensing.

They send an agent to your property.
They hope you will either:
let them in or Buy a license.

AT THIS POINT: They are sales people, nothing more. They're no different to a window company or a charity collector.
TELL THEM NO AND CLOSE YOUR DOOR

...
It is now the agent can gather evidence.
They can take photos from public areas, so paths roads etc. and they can film from public areas etc. and they can write a witness statement to say whatever.

AT THIS POINT:
they have to send all evidence to a judge for the judge to decide if they have enough for a warrant.

If the judge decides there's enough for a warrant, they'll issue a warrant. If the judge says not enough evidence, they'll refuse a warrant.
How much evidence is needed? That's for the judge to decide.

If the agents return with a warrant, demand to see it, they should have a copy for you. (Some people say it has to be wet signature, but it doesn't, a stamped warrant is valid)

It is ONLY at that point you MUST let them in or you could face 'breach of warrant' charge.

Let them in, be polite ,they often bring police officers to ensure no breach of the peace. Don't ask the police officer to help you, there isn't much they can legally do to help.
The agent will enact the warrant and inspect TVs etc in your home.

now... Should they turn a telly on and it's tuned into BBC1 or some other channels live broadcast.. You're in the muck.

If, however, they turn your telly on and its just a menu screen for a Smart TV with apps listed, they might open an app or two. If they open the iPlayer app it shouldn't be logged in. Better yet, the app shouldn't be there and should be deleted.

You can't hinder them in their execution of the warrant and, as I recall, there is a line in the warrant / law that suggests you should provide reasonable assistance. So just show them the TVs and such and as long as you've been honest and proper, you should be absolutely fine.

---

Now

Here's what I would suggest to everyone.

Inform Licensing you don't need a license, do it online.
Make sure your TV can't be seen from the street or road, should the agents visit they'll not see a screen to photograph. And if they try and say they did see one, they're lying and you can prove it.
IF AN AGENT VISITS - don't tell them to fuck off, don't yell, don't scream, don't get angry. Just follow these simple steps,
"Who are you?"
"TV Licensing"
"No thank you"
CLOSE THE DOOR

(Btw - If someone knocks your door and refuses to identify themselves at the door, if they just repeat 'are you the occupier?' or 'do you live here?' then refuse to speak to them and close the door. If they ask 'are you Mrs insert name?' never say yes, always ask who they are. If they refuse to identify themselve, close the door. Etc)

And, if you have the capacity, always ALWAYS film the interactions.

--

Finally.

If you do get salesmen, if you do get a warrant and they do believe you've been watching TV and they do try and prosecute ... GO TO COURT...

Did you know. A LOT of the people that get found guilty don't even bother to fight it in court? They don't even go. They just ignore it and before they know it, the fine is on their mat and they're guilty.

Don't do it. Go to court, fight, get up in front of a judge and defend yourself.

-

Tl;Dr

BBC licensing is actually Capita, a private company, they've no powers without a warrant.
Just close the door to them.
Fight them in court should you have to.

😃👍🏻

Thelittleweasel · 26/11/2024 14:43

The post that they have no right to enter the property is right. They [Capita??] send endless fierce letters.

You can - of course - let them in if they visit but if not they [reasonably?] take that as suspicious/something to hide and go and get a warrant which does give them access. If they find something wrong they used [in the past at least] to take you to court.

Most people do not turn up at court so - of course - judgement is entered against them with a fine...

If you do not pay the fine then you can be sent to prison!

Years ago I dealt with a vulnerable person who had only a black and white licence and a black and white TV but did have a recorder which [although there was no way of viewing in colour] recorded in colour. They were taken to court, later imprisoned [!] until friends paid everything off for release.

There has been a lot of talk about not having a licence being a criminal matter and I believe it - at present - still is. Long ago I used to go to court to view hearings. If the defendant turns up the result was usually buy a licence on the spot and given a conditional discharge

If you are worried I would suggest that you get some proper advice from a current expert and act accordingly [particularly if the process has already started say with a visit] @holdingspacedefyinggravity