DS wants to climb Snowdon in December

[JoggyBear]

He's just said this.

He's never hiked before in his life.

He's 18! And he says his friend, who he is going witjlh, has done it a few times.

It's madness right??

To all the people saying he shouldn't do it without taking a paper map - there's no use having a paper map if you don't know how to read it and use it! Simply having a map will get them nowhere.

Map or no map, sounds like a ridiculous idea. Although if plan B is to walk in the Lakes, that might be just as bad, if not worse. At least on the Llanberis route up Snowdon there will be other people. In the Lakes they might not see anyone for miles.

But I would be strongly advising against either for 2 inexperienced teenagers in December.

I was being dramatic for effect saying that about Asda
He does walk, he walks most places so it's not his fitness or stamina I'm worried about but the dangers of a mountain and the fact he's never done a proper uphill hike before. Thw weather. The light hours. The time of the year. His inexperience of being overweight a mountain etc

His Dad would be with him in the Lakes.

Entirely dependent on conditions, which in December are rarely ideal. Any significant snow on the mountain will also mean ice in places. Even the main tourist drag has several steep sections (that have proved to be accident black spots) and if those are icy they could be lethal. I wouldn’t want to attempt anything like that unless I had crampons to use.

Yeah, this would concern me. For an averagely fit teen, the walk itself would probably be alright if the conditions were, notwithstanding there's a problem with unprepared people doing it even when they're not. But doing it in December means some of it has to be in the dark, which just seems stupid.

If he didn't even manage his Duke of Edinburgh, then no.
He should leave it until next summer (and take water and a hat etc).

I'm going to put my foot down and just say no.

I'll offer (bribe) to pay for them both to do another activity, go karting or indoor rock climbing etc

So that puts another spin on things.
He has the equipment but no experience.

So the question is: is his friend actually really experienced and can your ds rely on him?

If your ds as little outdoorsy as you describe, I don’t think he’ll last more than 1~2 hours tbh.

There's a nice little wander around the lake in Llanberis that would probably suit better.

https://www.visitsnowdonia.info/lake-walk-padarn-country-park-llanberis

We did it with youngish DC in October and really feel we lucked out with the weather - glorious sunshine at the start and we were walking in vest tops but by the top it was bloody freezing (obviously not still in vest tops I might add!) visibility was quite poor, no train running or cafe open and there were lots of people looking woefully unprepared & out of their depth. It was my first proper hike and I found it challenging so would definitely try and steer them towards another adventure but not up a mountain in December!

Why not look at other YHA's on walking paths & suggest they do a trial - stay over, plan a long day walking similar distance albeit not so hilly - it will give them that same sense of freedom & adventure and either make them realise Snowdon in December is a ridiculous idea or something they want to pursue and hopefully with a more realistic outlook. Depending where you are, the YHA on the South Downs is great and amazing walking but not quite so remote.

Really silly idea. Google mountain rescue stories - there are often ones on BBC news website with a real undercurrent of shame (quite rightly imo!) where it’s idiots lost in a whiteout, freezing cold, no experience and poorly equipped. Perhaps the potential embarrassment factor might put him off. He also shouldn’t be relying on other walkers helping them out. Many will looks out for others, but most would also be pissed off at having to bail out idiots, and in any case daft teenagers would probably try to style it out and refuse help.

The people on this thread saying it’s stupid and dangerous are highly likely to be experienced hill walkers. Someone who has done it in summer following the hoardes might have no idea what nearly 1000m in winter is like. I’m extremely experienced and wouldn’t go out in winter without crampons and ice ax. And there’s no way I’d take a beginner with me.

He will end up needing rescuing. Tell him to go in June

Can anyone recommend anything around the North West I could tempt them with instead?
Adventure type stuff

There's an area above Clogwyn (about halfway up the Llanberis Path) known as the 'killer convex' because it becomes very slippery in winter and there have been multiple fatalities. Even the 'easy' paths can be very dangerous in winter. Also, even a minor injury like a sprained ankle becomes dangerous up a mountain. If someone is injured and can't make their own way down, they'd have to wait for mountain rescue which takes time (longer in winter conditions) and can result in hypothermia. We are a family of hikers, we've been taking our children up UK mountains since they were 4. Would we attempt Yr Wyddfa in winter, even without the children? Absolutely not. For experienced hikers with winter experience, great, but it's definitely not for novices at that time of year, even on the 'easy' routes.

It things like this that make me glad my sons are not sporty or into things like climbing. I wouldn’t be happy about him doing this in the winter. Why on earth can’t he do it in the spring.

My 8 and 10 year old did the Llanberis path - it's not difficult. If he's unfit or has the wrong hydration/ food/ clothes/ shoes he will struggle, though.

I've never done it in December, but I did it with family when I was 9 and I remember it being just a nice walk, not too hard at all.

That said, depending on which route you take it can be quite dangerous. On some of the harder ones there are some sheer drops which have caught people out when they've been taking selfies and lost their footing, so make sure he's prepared and does his research before setting out. Also make sure they start bright and early - nothing more scary than trying to find your way down a mountain in the pitch dark!!

But as long as he's sensible and dresses for the weather, he'll be grand. Make sure he gets some proper hiking boots (Mountain Warehouse do some reasonably prices ones) and wears them in properly in the weeks leading up to it.

Brilliant that he's discovered an interest in the great outdoors - be happy in that!

Tell them to check out Zip World nearby - there's an extreme Plummet which should appeal: https://www.zipworld.co.uk/location/fforest

'He's never camped. Doesn't own a bike. He's a gamer.
The furthest he's walked is to Asda.'

.....,,

That's really sad but maybe he will develop a new found love for hiking.

I hike every day. It's wondrous for good health, physical and mental.

This is right. Snowden with snow is actually really dangerous.

I can say this with experience unfortunately. I slipped on the zig zags, had an ice axe but stupidly no crampons. I was able to stop my fall with my ice axe but was then unable to move. Another walker with a rope got me back on the path.

pp saying it’s easy are just not reflecting snow and ice conditions.

Except the way to do that isn't to go up Snowdon in trainers in December - it could kill him.

@JoggyBear this story is quite typical of what happens to people climbing the mountains around Eyri (Snowdonia) in the winter

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/walkers-snowy-eryri-peaks-9c-30428787?fbclid=IwY2xjawGxS6tleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHTewMV-Sxyd_i-u-CS3JQ-I1GSyX1Gwfx4aNE8j-ZKFlbOZ5TVWqosHtWQ_aem_AEpmirOIZ3HwiEc22PO1fQ

It's literally a different world up there. I climb Pen Y Fan often and the amount of times I've been at the top and seen a cloud roll in covering the mountain with a dense fog in minutes is nuts. The weather changes so fast and if you're not experienced, getting turned around and ending up somewhere dangerous is so easy to do. Pen Y Fan is obviously smaller than Yr Wyddfa (Snowdon). I wouldn't contemplate climbing Yr Wyddfa for the first time in the winter...and I've got all the right gear and experience of mountain walking.

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/wales/carneddau-and-glyderau/cwm-idwal-walk

this is a great walk and would be a sensible alternative for December.

It’s the wrong time of year for an inexperienced climber. If he insists on going, make sure he is aware of Crib Goch and doesn’t take this route: snowdoninfo.com/crib-goch/#:~:text=The%20Llanberis%20Mountain%20Rescue%20team,year%20sees%20serious%20injuries%20from

I would advise him to wait until at least spring/summer and in the meantime if he is interested in starting hiking then go out with his dad a few times on local hills to get a bit of experience. The conditions are so changeable in the mountains, would he have the sense to turn back if things get dangerous or would he put on bravado? I took my lad up snowdon in June and the weather came in so fast but we were both prepared. Also The summit shelter will not be open in winter at all where as at least in the summer months it offers a brief escape from the elements.

There are also some very dangerous routes on snowdon such as crib goch which have been made more popular by the likes of instagram and the results of a wrong move on there are often fatal.

I am a fairly experienced mountain hiker but I’m careful of what conditions I go out in in winter. In my bag I always have a first aid kit, few packs of hand warmers, spare layers, head torch and spare batteries, map and compass, emergency Bivvy shelter, Micro spikes, hiking poles plus lots of food and a hot drink, waterproofs, spare socks, . Most of the time I do not need it however I know I have the means to attempt to keep warm should I break my ankle etc.