DS wants to climb Snowdon in December

[JoggyBear]

He's just said this.

He's never hiked before in his life.

He's 18! And he says his friend, who he is going witjlh, has done it a few times.

It's madness right??

As a novice, it seems stupid to choose to do this in December. I've done it in September when it was rainy/foggy - visibility very poor.

Allsorts could happen.

DS walked the Llanberis track with us when he was 7 - not in winter though! He needs to be sensible about the weather. You say he has hiking boots but has he broken them in? I would definitely tell him to get a proper map too.

He wants to do it in trainers and has never walked further than ASDA.

Doing things like that is what gets people killed and puts other people and Mountain Rescue at risk too.

People die on Snowdon every year because of attitudes like this. It's dangerous - especially in winter.

Theres nothing you can do to stop him but I'd make sure he has an orange survival bag, rescue whistle (my rucksack has one built into the chest strap) hand warmers and good socks, hat, gloves and a good torch.

Hell probably say he doesn't need any of it but if it snows and they can't see the path they are screwed. If he assumes he can rely on his phone he is soon going to find the cold drains the battery quickly.

@JoggyBear So you are closer to the Lake District but he’s never hiked? I agree with you though. Start with shorter hikes.

If you want a scary story - read on. My DMs best friend lost her university student grandson who did exactly this. Not Snowdon but in the Lake District. Never hiked before and no preparation. In winter. It beggars belief anyone could be so stupid but 18 year olds are! They egg each other on full of bravado. They think they know everything but they don’t. Young men are particularly vulnerable to gung ho mates who actually know nothing.

Based on the above, is friend really truthful about his hiking knowledge. What about weather forecasts and prep? I agree to start short and local. Or get the train up if it’s running and hike down in good weather next summer? It’s something I would not advocate in December for utter novices - do you know the other young man? What experience has he got and do you know his family? I would want to be satisfied about his experience. Why don’t his family take them?

Very stupid. The conditions can (and do) change rapidly. Things like snow and fog / mist can appear from nowhere and quickly disorientate even a seasoned hiker. Not to mention the potential to be dangerously cold and wet when you're spending hours on the side of a mountain.
Many of the paths are quite gentle (relatively speaking - it is after all still a mountain) but some of the paths are dangerous. It's very easy in poor conditions to make a navigation error and end up on the wrong path. People have plummeted to their deaths on some of these paths. And they were seasoned, well-equipped hikers.

@PrimitivePerson what actual outdoors experience have you had? They aren't talking about doing it on a summer or Easter day with good visibility, busy paths and hours of sun light.

He is planning to go ill equipped, inexperienced, and at a time when poor weather is likely and the days are short.

Itd be a bit different if he'd been hiking for years, done his silver DoE, knew how to plan a route and read a map and what to do in an emergency but it doesn't sound like he can do any of those things.

Routes in the Lake District can be just as hazardous, so the points in this thread still apply.

I'd take him to do Whinlatter Forest parkrun (you can walk a parkrun) that's pretty benign underfoot, has marshalls and radio comms for the bits where mobile signal vanishes, and a tailwalker which means he'd be found in a very short time if he got in to difficulties.

Walking shouldn't take more than an hour or so, but has 210m elevation gain, so it a good try-out for the legs. And to check that his boots and other kit are comfortable in real use.

He also needs a session on map-reading - you could keep going after the parkrun on other tourist trails in the forest, with him navigating from an actual map. Keep him going for several hours. Find out if he likes it in practice! If he does - brilliant. If he doesn't, better he finds out there than in wilder terrain. You (or your more seasoned DH) could offer to take his friend too.

@Singleandproud I've had quite a lot now, but didn't have much at all at the time I climbed Snowdon. Yes, doing it in trainers would be stupid, but as a "my first mountain", Snowdon isn't particularly difficult or onerous.

Llanberis Mountain Rescue Team, which covers Yr Wyddfa (Snowdon), is the busiest of the 47 teams the UK, despite having the smallest operational area.

Last year it had 300 callouts.

What does that suggest?

Why don't you encourage him to do it? It's not a death trap but he needs to be somewhat prepared.

In December- absolutely not.
Mountain Rescue team had to rescue 2 lots of people the other day putting their own lives at risk due to the stupidity of others.
Tell him to do it in the Summer when he might stand half a chance that the weather will be on his side - although not guaranteed.

And consider limited daylight in December. It can easily take 6-8 hrs to do a return hike if you're not a seasoned hiker. Daylight hours at most will be around 7 which gives very little wiggle room.

A lot of people are acting like he’ll be fine as long as he sticks to Llanberis. Possibly they’ve only done it in the summer, and aren’t aware that due to the way the ice forms, it’s not the safest path in winter.

This is the sort of thing your son needs to know if he’s going to do it.

Not in trainers

He has very expensive walking boots that he wears daily just because he likes the style so boots aren't an issue.

And his Dad has lots of waterproofs/camping equipment

But I just don't feel comfortable with it being December and so cold/dark early

Just looking up Snowdonia on the MWIS, today's forecast includes:
How Cold? (at 900m)
0C. Wind chill feeling like -12 to -15C.

Might be worth him looking it up to understand what the conditions can actually be like.

Unless there is snow, it should be fine if he has enough suitable clothes and boots. Definitely don't go if there's snow, it's completely disorienting and the path will disappear, and clearly he has no compass/map skills so would be very ill-advised.

Let’s say he’s going next week. Daylight hours on 5 Dec are from 08:13-16:00. Your AI overview says it’s a 5-8 hour walk.

They are going on a day trip so need to have factored in public transport from wherever you live to Llanberis in time to get underway in or near sunrise, and if they are quick walkers and allowing 1 hour total for stops for snacks, lunch, adjusting boots, layers etc they would need 6 hours. Add in another 1 hour for contingency so they would want to aim to have finished their walk by 3pm. That’s assuming they don’t need the full 8 hours. In which case they will either start or end in the dark which doesn’t seem sensible.

having said all that I’d be amazed if they organise themselves sufficiently so maybe just smiling and nodding right now is the best way to go.

also - if your DH hikes and camps how come he’s never taken his DS with him? It’s really sad that you describe him as having never walked further than Asda. I appreciate that’s tongue in cheek but, no walks, hikes, anything with his dad or as a family, ever?

Because it sounds like a fucking stupid idea in winter for his first outing?

@NutellaEllaElla The rescue call outs suggest it is - potentially. Surely it’s not a great decision in December for a complete novice? Go in the summer with good weather forecast.

The Lake District run is a great idea!

If it was summer, and the trainers are the specialist type that fell runners use, you'd be fine in them.

I'm ready to bet good money that that's not the sort of trainers he has. Nor that he has the strength in the legs and hill endurance of a reasonably experienced trail runner

It was tongue in cheek.
Of course we walk in local parks, national trust places etc
But he's never done a mountainous hike.

DH goes with his mates and they often do pub crawls etc and DS never wanted to go, like I said he's not the outdoorsy type passed thw normal park/dog walking stuff.

It's always involved camping and he has never wanted to do it.

I'm 42 and have never camped in my life.

Some people just don't want to!

Let him try and organise the practicalities before you panic.

Depending on where you are in the UK the train journey to the nearest station can be 3-4 hours, plus a bus or taxi to Llanberis.

So you're looking at 11am earliest to start walking. They start to lose light at 3, sunset is 4, it will be dark by 4:30.

For novices it's probably a 6-7 hour round trip in nice weather. In winter it will be unpleasant and take longer. He won't see anything at the summit as it will be dark by the time he gets there.

Where can he walk to near you that is a supermarket and about the same distance? I know its not going to be uphill in the same way, but its a trial

tell him if he wants to do the climb, then he should have no problem walking to said supermarket and getting the ingredients for a roast dinner (give him a list with a few heavy things). Then off he can go.(preferably when its forecast to rain)

i would guarantee you he either, wont go at all as its too far, start off amd call you to pick him up because its too far, go the distance but realize its a long way and rain makes you wet and he should actually train a bit before going to the mountains.

@NutellaEllaElla yes in December Snowdon is literally a death trap with people needing rescuing and potential for avalanches.

Just because it is a fairly simple walk in good conditions in the summer does not mean it is the same in the winter. Icy paths increase risk of slipping and potential of broken limbs, poor visibility and risk of going off the path, hypothermia if caught in a snow or wind storm. Poorer conditions means the rescue teams may struggle to find you.

The problem is people don't take it seriously enough.