Government plans to get long term sick back to work.

[Miley1967]

Does anyone have any information about how the Government are planning to get long term sick/ disabled back to work? I have read there is a paper being published/ announced this week. In my local area ( East Midlands) I have seen jobs advertised this week ( multiple jobs) for health and work coaches but employed through the NHS and based in Gp surgeries, so it does seem as though they are already taking steps to implement this.
Just a bit worried for some of my clients( I work in benefits advice work ) as to whether this is going to be pushed on them or if it's a scheme they will choose to be part of and just wondering what it is going to entail, will these coaches be working with employers who are genuinely going to be able to support this group of people into work?

Well they could try being a bit more honest with women instead of trying to spring surprise hysteroscopies with no GA on them!

I had to cancel mine for two reasons 1 i object to painful procedures being sprung on me because of misogyny and money saving. 2 my dad had just died.

I rang the hospital and was fourteenth in the queue so e mailed.

The value placed on work, skills and experience is often ignored. My DC has moved out from home, with family support, and did not want to go back to hospitality, for which they have significant talent and five years experience in a top flight kitchen. But today, a chef skills trial (a mousse, hollandaise sauce and veg prep, in case you're interested), because there's nothing at all in the desired professional direction, and the job advertised at £14ph is his to accept... plus £1 p h for experience. The CdPs are on £14 ph with six weeks experience! Margins are tight everywhere. But when you want a nice meal in a pleasant restaurant most people just want cheap... so you get quick tasty deep fried shit and people just love it. No wonder there's an obesity crisis.

Well, the increase in NMW can either cut into profit or the business can choose profit and make cuts. We all know profit is king, that's why Thames Water is billions in debt, hasn't invested in infrastructure and is pumping raw sewage into our waterways.

You have to remember that we're talking about people with disabilities here. The government are also talking about putting staff in mental health wards. People aren't in mental health wards because they're feeling a bit gloomy.

Yet again you have to make sure that the support is in place to enable people to work.

The NT has fit 65-85 retired middle class people with degrees volunteering from professional backgrounds to fill such slots, for free. And a bank of names too. Why would they pay for an LD person, except to take the parking money, and even that is cheaper to do via an app now. The issue is that there is not much work left that is accessible to anyone who doesn't have some level of skill. There used to be work for those people, even if it was only collecting and stacking the bricks.

When our house was replastered, our plasterer took eight months to respond (because he was busy) and arrived with an assistant even older. We had to pull him upright on several occasions.

I really don't have an answer for this. The world used to find work for those who weren't clever, if they were strong, but there really is not much opportunity available for the stupid. In my youth, they were accommodated in asylums and occupied with handicrafts. Eventually the handsome buildings and the landscaped grounds gifted by philanthropists were so temptingly profitable that they were redeveloped into desirable retirement properties.

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Housing benefit, Universal credit, and PIP easily adds up to well over 1000 a month. Plus hefty discounts on council tax, access to food banks really do mean people on long term sick are better off than those working full time on minimum wage. www.gov.uk/pip/how-much-youll-get

Plus theres carers allowance, child benefits etc on top for those it impacts.

There's a lot of low skilled work in factories for those physically able.

The issue is people might claim these benefits with the intention of returning to work. But when they realise they can get say 1200 on benefits (Universal credit, housing allowance, PIP) plus not pay council tax/pay token amount, where's the incentive to work a gruelling 37 hour a week minimum wage job? Much easier to be "too anxious" to look for work and make a weekly GP appointment for evidence.

Gosh @icelolly12 you are as cynical as me.

Exactly this and after some time that “income” becomes normalised.

But you can get those benefits and work.

You make getting signed off and getting benefits so easy. You don't get benefits just for being anxious. You need a lot of evidence to prove you meet the criteria. Oh, and if you get limited capability to work after April 2017 you get no extra benefit. You get the same as a job seeker.

We have workshy within our family, know every loop hole to claim, no intention of working. I will also add I have a friend who absolutely cannot work due to disability/ health grounds who is very frightened by news.

I have DS is at Uni, struggling to find a part time job, despite fairly decent CV having worked NMW job for 2 years at the same place along side ALevels and then a hospitality job this summer where he won an award for best Team member, it looks like he has eventually secured something to start in January, but he applied to a lot and did not get a look in.

DD16 desperate to start work, DS got her into hospitality this summer where he worked, she was doing more hours than she should for her age, she was happy to do this, I was happy, she wasn’t being forced, she was learning a work ethic. Quite a few business will not touch anyone under the age of 18 because of all the working time directives. Hospitality came to an end as seasonal. Hunt has been on since Sept for another job to run alongside her ‘full time’ college which is 2 1/2 days a week. The jobs she’s applying for all seem to have on line applications only and she’s not getting a bite, not even Xmas seasonal, very disheartening. she finds out later this week if she’s been successful for apprenticeship, I’m keeping everything crossed she gets it as she is so motivated, just not academic, she learns by doing, and I don’t want her motivation dampened.

i think we’re missing a trick by making it so difficult for 16 year olds to find work, so they can start building a work ethic, I was working from 14 (older parent), not much of an education but I’ve always worked, part time when DC were young/growing up, back to full time.

So where are all the jobs coming from, there isn’t an abundance, and likely to get worse as companies make changes to support NI & NMW increases, online applications make it hard, automation within retail is coming in fast. Then we have AI, the company I work for has not only ramped up automation but off shored what’s left of its lower level admin abroad. This is the company where I started work at the bottom and have worked my way up to a nice little number. The company dare I add who trades outside of UK to avoid taxes. These are the companies they should have gone for to bring in extra revenue.

there are literally thousands of vacancies, but nobody wants to do “those” jobs. There are lots of full time jobs available, they just aren’t all particularly glamorous ones or big money ones

I know if you don't have a job, you can't be choosy... but in my area these type of jobs are warehouseing jobs, physically demanding, 12 hour shifts over 24/7 all on minimum wage....
The issue is, someone who hasn't worked in a while for whatever reason or has only had an office job before is simply not suitable for such a job. Add in some DC on top and you can understand why nobody wants to even apply.

Depends on the factory. Somebody with LD would really struggle where I work. Also most of the "low skilled" work is now automated

I’d be interested to know where this is because that’s really not the case in any of the areas my previous team covered. I’ve been speaking to my colleagues still there this morning about what’s available and yes there are warehouse jobs but actually the vast majority are call centre staff at Sky/EE/AA, admin staff a huge range of places (law firms, NHS, local businesses, financial services groups) which all offer some WFH & provide full training, calls handlers for 111, delivery driving, cleaning, administrator roles in the police hiring as well as border force, there’s also some labouring ones on a building site etc. There are lots of jobs, across the board not just in warehousing.

I'm a little sceptical about these "thousands of vacancies". It has exactly the same tone as the "bloke down the road can do it for free" some customers pull when given a price. (Nice memory of my DF slamming a bonnet shut on hearing that and saying "well no need for me to look then").

In my own time, I have seen a vacancy advertised with an agency and it immediately transpires that it doesn't exist but is a fishing attempt to harvest cvs and/or an attempt to get a former managers details so they can be spammed with candidates.

When you've worked with estate agents, your cynicism becomes infinite.

@Mrsttcno1 - try the midlands. The local economy is exactly that, warehouseing. Of course there are a few other options but the majority is in warehouseing, dead end jobs that will eat you up and spit you out.
I would say labouring, cleaning and delivery driving are not specifically full time jobs... sometimes they are even seasonal. So if someone takes up cleaning its 95% pt hours, often early morning or evening... same for delivery driving, plus the companies often do 0 hours contract or make you self-employed. They are dead end zero prospects jobs and you end up with less money in your pocket than if you stay on benefits.

And while I maintain that someone out of work can't be choosy, I also understand that taking certain jobs would just get people back to where they started: on benefits - you need to understand the sociology behind long term unemployment. It's not as easy as saying there are 1000's of jobs available.

But this is largely irrelevant when the gov proposals potentially mean sanctioning or stopping benefits for those who can do these jobs but are choosing not to. That's the whole point, to get rid of the “that job’s rubbish I’m better off on benefits”- you won’t be, because you won’t be entitled to those benefits if you don’t get a job. You’d still be entitled to the top ups if/as needed but you won’t be in the position any longer where those people have less when working than on benefits because actually if you CAN work but don’t, you’ll get £0, and then you take any job because you need the money. The only reason your argument of “better of on benefits than working” exists is because those benefits are given, and potentially if this all pans out they won’t be, so any job is better than £0.

I do agree though that there needs to be more support, more guidance, looking at the reasons behind unemployment and it does seem as though the government are also aware of that and are going to push in that direction.

@Mrsttcno1 how does that work in practise?

How do you separate someone who goes for interviews and can't get work to someone who also attends but doesn't really want to get that job

Does the decrease in payment only happen if a job offer is declined?

Actually I don't know how you must work if you can pans out in terms of benefits?

It’s tricky but not impossible and some of those checks are already in place now, if you’re claiming and seeking employment but after 20 interviews don’t have an offer then they can seek feedback from those employer’s, so if a candidate has walked in and said “I don’t want this job but have to be here” then you find out then, equally if the issue was interview technique then support can be given for that.

From the info given it appears to be that they will put support in place for training, upskilling, help applying for and interviewing for jobs etc and at least at a basic level if you don’t engage with what is required then you’d be sanctioned. If you’re not attending interviews or accepting jobs then the same.

Who knows how it will all look in practice but that’s the principle.

There are some people though who are in reality are unemployable.

I'm not sure how much valuable information you will get from interview feedback, especially for the lower paid jobs. You need the cooperation of the employer that's a huge variable.

And, going to work costs money. Car, tickets for public transport, bicycle and even weather proof clothing for walking.
If you have children, there is the obvious, childcare with hidden costs like transport getting there and back and extra for snack & lunch. So whatever you say, if you are going for nmw jobs, you will be worse off financially.

Add time and stress to the equation and a relatively carefree life on benefits is hugely appealing.

I'm sure for a lot of long term unemployment people it's a case of the devil you know....

You are not worse off in a MNW job. That is not how the benefits system works.

But it doesn't take into account travel costs and childcare is paid for a maximum amount.

People do NMW jobs usually do not have very high travel costs. A monthly bus pass. They are not taking the commuter train 80 miles to London and back every day.