Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

UK Farmers

327 replies

SunQueen24 · 19/11/2024 10:20

Can someone please explain to me what today is all about?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Blinky21 · 19/11/2024 13:47

And I'm going to have to pay 40 per cent tax on private, previously tax free, pensions. No sympathy here

SunQueen24 · 19/11/2024 13:48

Huffalumps · 19/11/2024 13:33

Ultimately, land will be bought up by corporates (supermarkets). Say goodbye to naice high welfare agriculture. Hello to US/Dutch style intensive agriculture.

In other news, landlords are exiting the market to the applause of Lab supporters. Rentals will ultimately be bought up and run by corporates (banks).

The whole country will soon be owned and run by big business who basically have the unigovernment in their pocket.

Depressing train of thought.

That process will only be sped up, it wouldn’t otherwise be avoided - farmers have a price too.

OP posts:
crumblingschools · 19/11/2024 13:48

@SunQueen24 but must people’s homes don’t go towards providing food for the nation. As stated other family businesses had a similar relief so they didn’t need to be broken up on the death of owner. This relief has been reduced too. Not looking good for ant type of family run business and maybe better for bigger corporations. Is that what we want?

Actually the people who will probably benefit the most are accountants not taxpayers who will be helping business owners find the best way to reduce their tax bill

woodenbatandball · 19/11/2024 13:50

@Diomi why is it nasty and vindictive? Every tax rise in that case is nasty and vindictive?

Kellyy8 · 19/11/2024 13:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Alittlemorebling · 19/11/2024 13:50

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o

I thought this was a helpful explainer, haven’t read the full thread so apologies if it has already been posted.

A green tractor ploughing a field in Suffolk. The BBC Verify logo is in the top corner.

How many farms would be affected by Budget changes?

Estimates of the number of farms affected range from 100 to 70,000.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o

Kellyy8 · 19/11/2024 13:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Suntree32 · 19/11/2024 13:52

ClaudiaWankleman · 19/11/2024 13:32

So don’t die within 7 years then?

🤣 I'll tell that to my 83 year old, not very well dad. I'm sure he'll comply!!

SunQueen24 · 19/11/2024 13:54

Alittlemorebling · 19/11/2024 13:50

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o

I thought this was a helpful explainer, haven’t read the full thread so apologies if it has already been posted.

Oh wow that provides that 40% of farms in England were bought by investors last year. So the argument that farms will otherwise go to investors is a reality anyway?

OP posts:
ClaudiaWankleman · 19/11/2024 13:55

StandingSideBySide · 19/11/2024 13:35

Completely unreasonable comment

No it isn’t. Any change to IHT invariably impacts people in a way that can’t be prepared for, because that’s the nature of death.

Farmers aren’t special, and the changes will not affect the vast majority of them who will not die within 7 years, and who take sensible steps to tax plan.

What is completely unreasonable is the farmer exceptionalism that is being shown by multiple posters in this thread.

SunQueen24 · 19/11/2024 13:55

crumblingschools · 19/11/2024 13:48

@SunQueen24 but must people’s homes don’t go towards providing food for the nation. As stated other family businesses had a similar relief so they didn’t need to be broken up on the death of owner. This relief has been reduced too. Not looking good for ant type of family run business and maybe better for bigger corporations. Is that what we want?

Actually the people who will probably benefit the most are accountants not taxpayers who will be helping business owners find the best way to reduce their tax bill

No - we don’t want it - but it’s whether that’s actually a realistic consequence of this tax, or whether it’s just an emotive argument.

OP posts:
Pammela2 · 19/11/2024 13:56

crumblingschools · 19/11/2024 13:41

@Pammela2 so family businesses will impacted which won’t be great either. Not going to encourage people to set up businesses

Of course they will. Just because you pay IHT doesn’t mean you don’t form a business. You should be more concerned with CGT if that’s the case.

Kellyy8 · 19/11/2024 13:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Wiskeydour · 19/11/2024 13:56

Those saying if they gift the farm and then continue to live in the property will have tax implications. They could hold onto their property and just gift the farm. The property would then be part of the estate when they pass away just as everyone else's property is. Also of outstanding loans on machinery are such a big issue what happens when the farmer dies and and machine debt is inherited?

From my experience from the farmers in my family the older farmers just don't want to relinquish control of the farm to the younger generation. My cousin works on the farm as is not paid a proper wage. In his 30's he still has to ask his parents for money. I am sure my Aunt and Uncle don't want to gift him the farm and find the tables are turned!

Samphire44 · 19/11/2024 13:56

SunQueen24 · 19/11/2024 13:54

Oh wow that provides that 40% of farms in England were bought by investors last year. So the argument that farms will otherwise go to investors is a reality anyway?

Yes it is telling how the Strutt and Parker overview states in their pre budget market outlook section' that:
'The current tax regime has been one of the many attractions of buying UK farmland, and so we look forward to having more clarity about the Government’s plans at the end of the month'
rural.struttandparker.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/2024-10-02_UK_EFAD-Q3-Farmland-Market_1.4.pdf

Neddevine · 19/11/2024 13:57

SunQueen24 · 19/11/2024 13:42

I’m not sure that’s an ideal argument as most people inherit subject to IHT.

But most are not set to lose their home and livelihood when they inherit. Those inheriting family farms usually live and work there. If they cannot afford the iht due, they will lose their home and income.

caringcarer · 19/11/2024 14:00

Sorry it is inheritance tax. But same outcome farmers will sell up to properly developers and food security is at risk

pushchairprincess · 19/11/2024 14:00

🚜

UK Farmers
caringcarer · 19/11/2024 14:00

Thankfully all other parties are against this policy and will reverse it once Labour get voted out.

AMFA · 19/11/2024 14:01

You really don’t need to put farmers up on a pedestal, they are mere mortals too!
If you choose to only see Farage jumping on yet another opportunity then that’s on you I’m afraid. There are plenty of other spokespersons you could listen to and really learn something from those who are doing the job day in day out.

Clarkson has shown with his program how difficult farming is and how much you need to do to make any money. He’s very open about who he is, but highlights what farming is like.

I live in a rural area, mainly dairy, beef and/or sheep. The work carried out by farmers is above and beyond any 9-5 job with very little rewards. Most round here have a partner who goes out to work to bring more money in.

The whole working ethos on a farm is totally different to having a job. They’re family run, usually three generations - the older ones still retaining some jobs whilst their children take over the running of the farm and teach their children who will eventually take over from them. Talk to a farmer and very often you’ll find that they feel they are guardians of the land, for the next generation to keep going, producing food for the country. It’s often a heartbreaking tough job, and like I said three times as many farmers commit suicide than the average. They were born to farm though, and for many it’s the only life they’ve ever known.

A farm might have a high value, but that doesn’t mean the farmer sees anything like a real income from it. They have to have expensive machinery - tractors, a car that can pull a trailer full of cows, a milking parlour, all of which add to the value of the farm, and all taxed just like everyone else pays. In terms of income (still taxed by the way) it tends to be lower than the national average.

We need farmers, without them we’re relying on foreign imports that often don’t meet our health and safety standards. We are an island, destroying farming (as this could do) is a pretty stupid thing to do. We leave ourselves very vulnerable.

Someone on the first page commented that yes there are some very wealthy farmers but that’s like assuming all business owners are Alan Sugar! It’s such a ridiculous and harmful assumption.

Around me a typical sized farm plus assets might be worth around £4m, but the average take home pay (if you need a figure) is likely to be well under £20k. Paying off IHT even over 10 years would be impossible. Sell off land to pay it and you have an unviable farm. What happens then? Yet another farm is sold to wealthy people to play at keeping a few sheep amongst their horses. It will never be farmed again.

Even suggesting that farmers put their farms into trust 7 years before they might die is difficult. For one it’s very expensive to organise, for another it takes an awful lot of trust to put your livelihood into someone else’s name, even if it is your son/daughter. Your whole life is tied to the farm in a very unique way.

I do understand that for those who have never farmed or who never go near the countryside it’s a difficult concept, but it’s frustrating reading comments from people who have no idea what it’s like to be a farmer, how hard they work and for so few rewards! Honestly if you were doing a job that had long hours and constant on calls on an income that was less than minimum wage you wouldn’t stick it out! At some times of the year like harvest, silage, calving, lambing, and so many others, the hours go up and the money stays the same.

KoalaCalledKevin · 19/11/2024 14:01

Suntree32 · 19/11/2024 13:11

But, as far as I understand it, it's 20% over £1 million, if you don't have a spouse or an expensive farm house? I may have misunderstood this.

It's £1m plus the standard £325k that everyone has exempt, plus £175k if you're passing a house down to direct descendants. Double that gets you to the £3m for married couples.

If you're not talking about a married couple it will depend whether the house is being left to a direct descendant, but will be £1.325m - £1.5m tax free. Obviously depends as well on things like gifts made before death which might be considered.

38thparallel · 19/11/2024 14:02

I won’t be crying into my cornflakes if the local farmers littering my Facebook feed are taxed. They are generally happy to share news of their wealth.

Op maybe you should have said this in your first post rather than your faux sympathy for farmers. It’s quite clear what you think and you started this thread to be goady.

potatocakesinprogress · 19/11/2024 14:02

Neddevine · 19/11/2024 13:57

But most are not set to lose their home and livelihood when they inherit. Those inheriting family farms usually live and work there. If they cannot afford the iht due, they will lose their home and income.

Plenty of people who run/inherit B&Bs pay inheritance tax. At double the rate farmers are being asked for.

Proudtobeanortherner · 19/11/2024 14:04

Aaron95 · 19/11/2024 11:05

It's jeopardising our food security.

That argument only holds water if all farmland that is sold off if no longer farmed. That seems highly unlikely to me. Whoever buys it is probably going to continue to produce food.

One argument that unheard is that it’ll be land banked by wealthy who are already buying land and not farming it. They do this as a way of avoiding their own IHT liabilities. The whole thing is ill thought out and is likely to impact food security.

potatocakesinprogress · 19/11/2024 14:04

Having learned that people were deliberately buying farms to use them as a tax loophole, I'm even less sympathetic.

It looks like closing this loophole will benefit genuine farmers in the long run as it means the value of the land won't continue being fakely inflated and it will be as its true value of farmland.

Swipe left for the next trending thread