Where should the cost burden for care of the elderly lie in society - with the state or individual

[mids2019]

I was watching an item on a politics show about the long standing problem of funding elderly care. There was some woman who was strongly critical of the funding middle as her mother had to swell her house to find care home fees. Could one argue that the parent had no need for her house with regrettably a very small chance of return so it is fair for that a set to be used in paying for free instead of the tax payer picking up the cost? It was an elephant in the room during the interview but the person losing the most in the scenario was the daughter who ultimately would inherit less but obviously this was not said.

I don't think there is a simple answer hence successive governments pushing this into touch but where should the cost burden lie, the state of the indiividual?

I think this subject is really co.implicated by the fact that we have universally free healthcare yet a private model for social care. There really is a sinking here. Hospitals will in future not be able to fill in for shortcomings of social care and there are many cases of the elderly taking up beds in hospitals as they can't be discharged without an adequate care package and I wonder if these cars packages are materialistic because of cost? We also get the situation where specialist nursing care is free yet caring in a care home is not so how do we square that circle?

Continence problems are a disability
Have a look at specialist groups on this issue think there’s one called bowel and bladder problems, others available
Also see If the incontinence is severe and affecting you as per PIP requirements and you apply before you are a pensioner you can receive PIP.

I would disagree with this.
my mum (paralysed with no speech after a stroke 5 years ago) has had respite care in a "cheap" nursing home. The care was brilliant. Many staff, including the nursing staff, had been there for years.

if you dig a little below the glossy adverts abd brochures you quickly discover that "luxury care homes" still pay their staff minimum wage or barely above it. They are about profit, make no mistake.

when you are completely reliant on other for your care and all you do all day is watch pensioner tv the kindness of the care staff is far more important than trendy curtains or any number of snazzy amenities you are probably too far gone to care about. In fact most people most likely want comfy interiors that resemble their own old fashioned homes.

Ok
Lets make all kids work too

Eh, because you can't choose if you need care in older age. Some people get dementia and some do not. It's a lottery. Just as ill health in younger age is somewhat of a lottery but it's covered by NHS. Why should older people have to pay because they are unfortunate and get dementia just because it's an illness that mainly affects older people?

They dont make that much as wage costs are so high and keep on going up with the NLW increases.

As a still sentient senior, I would prefer clean carpets but I am planning to put a bullet through the top of my head at the first whiff of significant incompetence. I watched my DMIL decline through dementia. She hated every minute.

I also disagree with this @T4phage
People get a place at anywhere that’s available
If you pay you may be one of only a few who are, the rest being funded by the tax payer

What's your evidence for your claims, T4phage?

Well truthfully maybe?
I knew of a boy who was brain damaged during childbirth. Deprived of oxygen.
He lasted 18 years, he could smile, liked TV and watching bright lights.

Couldn't hold his head up, couldn't speak, couldn't eat solid food, was tube fed. Needed turned at night. Doubly incontinence, Couldn't cough or deal with colds.

The cost of his care over the years must have been wild. Both medical, operations to insert tube lines, operations to remove build ups of mucus, special equipment wheelchairs, hoists, etc and then special school with physios working with him.

Plus the stress on the parents,

For what purpose?
Maybe it would have been kinder to say no we aren't going to fight for his life.

If you can't afford to pay your own fees you don't get to choose where you go.

@Needanewname42 as a society we are so afraid of death that this existence would be preferable to many apparently. They will claim the moral high ground and that you are heartless .

i do not believe that a pain filled, disorientating existence should be continued simply because sometimes the person seems less distressed than usual.

This thread reminds me of the one in AIBU about having having savings when being on benefits.

If you have the money/assets, then you should have to pay for your care. Just like if you have too much savings, then you wont be entitled to benefits.

People moan about potentially having to sell their house (which they will no longer be using) to fund their care like it is a punishment for being lucky enough to be a home owner.
What do you suggests happens to the people who didn't "try hard enough" to be home owners or accrue savings? That they end up needing care, but instead just rot at home? Their fault, right?

Hate to say this but the more premature babies that are saved especially ones very early premature, the more of them will be a burden on public finances not just in older age but for life because quite a lot of these babies have health limiting conditions. I am not saying I agree with that statement at all. I am just putting your own comments back to you using a different demographic than the elderly. I really wish people would stop denigrating elderly people who get things like dementia through no fault of their own and saying it's their own problem and they should not be entitled to funded HEALTH care

I couldn't find up to date information but the top private care home providers were making millions and paid their CEOs very substantial wages. They're businesses and there to make a profit.

Private care homes for children also cost the tax payer eye watering sums. The rise in wages will mean additional costs it won't cut into their profit.

Which means nothing.
Councils have lists of all care homes.
Only the super expensive ones won’t be available to the fully funded unless the family is prepared to pay the top ups if it exceeds the max the Government will pay.
The majority are all available to people paying too. They are not grotty

so again where’s the proof that all those care homes with places funded by the Government end up eating tinned soup with sticky carpets

Nobody said it is free. It has to be paid for. The question is should an elderly person with a health condition they didn't choose to have, have to bear the costs personally or should this health condition be treated in the same way as others are and be funded out of the public purse

Absolutely. Same with residential places for high needs children. No LA places as the Conservative government reduced funding. LA’s hands tied. Private residential, a six figure sum, per child per year.

We should all be responsible. We are a society that has failed the elderly. :(

My DM died a few months ago. I miss her more than I can express, but she was 89 and I am 68. And she died quietly in sleep, probably very peacefully as she went to bed, with a small (undrunk) glass of whiskey and didn't wake in the morning. It was the passing she would have chosen. She was healthy and well until she wasn't. Amen.

You do. You are given choices. I know from personal experience and from speaking to others. You are just making statements without backing these up with evidence as far as I can see

My MILs room was whatever was available at the time
It would be terrible to chuck someone out of a larger room with a view because someone funding themselves needed it.
It really doesn’t happen unless their care needs change

I saw that too. The geriatric prisoners tend to be housed together on the ground floor( stairs are an issue) and are given light duties, origami and paper folding mainly. I’d prefer to be in prison rather than homeless if it came down to it. Not that either seems ideal but I assume it’d be warmer, 3 meals a day, a bed, a shower, clean clothes.