Should the King make a statement about the Welby situation?

[CurlewKate]

As the Head of the CofE, he must surely have been aware of what was going on?

@Cynic17 "No. This issue has nothing to do with the King. "

The King is, as is frequently stated, the Head of the CofE. Welby submitted his resignation to him. Could you explain why the issue had nothing to do with him?

Actually I’m not even sure he tendered a resignation. I think he asked to retire. It’ll be something to do with not losing any benefits accrued regards pension and other lifetime income. They look after their own. They always do.

Thanks for these links. I hadn’t realised how bad things are- the public statements that the church leaders are quoted on are so completely at odds with these kind of coercively meant letters that are written away from public scrutiny. Appalling.

Those letters are heavily pressurising of Bishop Helen Ann and thank goodness she is so strong of character to resist them. I doubt King Charles will comment directly because it is a church matter and he is not involved in the daily running of it (rightly- not his area of expertise). However he is a moral figurehead so he shouldn’t do nothing.
There is great public service in what Bishop Helen Ann has done so I think the King should find a way to publicly honour her. He should definitely publicly be seen with her. Perhaps a visit to Newcastle also in the next few months where he visits her as part of local visits.

And in the meantime the King should ask for moral bravery and refer to the key duty of safeguarding in his next public address on moral issues. We need more people like the Bishop of Newcastle in leadership positions to act on safeguarding issues. More diversity in leadership in general but especially to include women would support safeguarding. In general promoting safeguarding is a huge cultural change that urgently needs to happen in the church. And in.wider society UK too, but we’re talking about the church on this thread.

For example only today there is also a report on BBC about how the licensed pub and bar trade aren’t keeping to their safeguarding standards around ‘Ask Angela’. They report calls for this to be linked with licence conditions. Of course it should be linked to license conditions,and with mandatory training for all staff. How is that even a question?

Pub staff would save lives by being trained to know what to do, and being able to actually do it, if someone discloses they need help. Same with religious leaders at all levels in the hierarchy. Or should we ask more of publicans? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789nn3d918o

I propose Rt Revd Dr Helen-Ann Hartley, the Bishop of Newcastle to replace Welby.

https://anglican.ink/2024/11/11/a-statement-from-the-rt-revd-dr-helen-ann-hartley-bishop-of-newcastle/

Editing for clarity

As a figure head the King represents the church at the highest level, albeit symbolically. Either this symbolism means something or it doesn't mean anything. The royal family behave as if it means a lot, after all, Welby crowned King Charles, so at the highest symbolic levels, these people are very close.

King Charles should say something, otherwise his position means nothing. Just empty shells, costumes to be paraded, rather than human beings with a conscience and moral compass representing a whole country.

The BBC reported that KC had a meeting with Welby yesterday, shortly before he resigned, so he was probably told to resign or get removed from your post. Welby did not voluntarily do the right thing, people in these position grow accustomed to the power, influence and oh so comfortable lifestyle, of course they don't want to leave this behind.

I am glad Welby has resigned and hope he's not going to stay while a replacement is being sought. They should remove him with immediate effect and get an interim ABC until someone has been selected. Can you imagine Welby preaching at the Christmas sermon? His congregation should boycott him. Also the police should investigate him.

There are a number of posters on this thread trying to play down Welbyn's responsibility in this matter. Welby ignored letters from CSA survivors but kept sending Christmas cards to Smyth until his death. He knew Smyth personally for decades and worked with him at the camps where Smyth abused boys. There were always rumours.

If those in positions of responsibility and power had dealt with the allegations properly, dozens of further children would not have been physically, psychologically and sexually abused. Let's bare in mind that this monster used to beat and rape young public school boys in his shed at home. In 1997, Smyth was arrested after the death of a 16-year-old boy at one camp. The case was dropped before trial and the barrister moved to South Africa. This man was influential and was enabled to act out his perversions.

https://news.sky.com/story/who-was-john-smyth-the-barrister-at-the-centre-of-the-church-of-england-abuse-cover-up-13252818

It's time that these people didn't close rank and have each other's back. Many more heads should roll. Anyone who knew about Smyth but didn't try their hardest to safeguard children should resign and be reported to the police.

The only people who matter now are the victims, their families and all current church going children and vulnerable adults so they don't become victims of pompous and abusive people enabled by the church. The safeguarding culture needs to change, more transparency and accountability and much better checks on the people who seek to work with children as part of their church duties.

@TameRockChick "
@CurlewKate please would you consider asking MN to move this to the royal board. It's an important thread and won't get lost there"

I wondered about that-but I worried it might get submerged in sycophancy.

There is great public service in what Bishop Helen Ann has done so I think the King should find a way to publicly honour her. He should definitely publicly be seen with her. Perhaps a visit to Newcastle also in the next few months where he visits her as part of local visits.

Yes yes yes to this.
After all, QE2 was quite happy to be seen with her son out riding in Windsor Park and at church days after his carcrash interview. Thereby rubberstamping his atrocious behaviour.

I agree, perhaps ask for it moved when the thread is slowing down. It's very interesting to read all the comments but should be 'preserved' in the royal board.

I don't agree with it being moved personally speaking. There are a core of very vocal Royalists who will excuse every bit of Charles's actions, thereby derailing what is an important thread.

No doubt Harry & Meghan will be brought into it if it's moved. The vile DM already have a disgusting article saying Welby showed awful judgement in marrying the couple, as he 'fell under their spell'.

The king should resign 😔

I don’t think this is Royals Board material.

It is about the structure of our establishment.

The CoE, as the established church, has huge power (unelected bishops in the House of Lords) and the monarch is the Supreme Governor, and makes the appointment of the Archbishop of Canterbury , and yet the whole thing is completely outside our democratic processes.

The statement that Charles should make is that he is resigning as Supreme Governor of the CoE and disestablishing the CoE.

Yes, he should and also take part in the decision of resigning or not.

The CoE, as the established church, has huge power (unelected bishops in the House of Lords) and the monarch is the Supreme Governor, and makes the appointment of the Archbishop of Canterbury , and yet the whole thing is completely outside our democratic processes.

Absolutely. I don't agree with hereditary peers and I really don't agree with 72 Bishops sitting in the HoL. There is only one other country in the world who has unelected clerics legislating in their government.

Iran.

You are not wrong, how about the politics or religion philosophy boards? Chat accrues posts but will be difficult to find later on. Maybe it doesn't matter and chat is best after all tho.

@BustingBaoBun "The vile DM already have a disgusting article saying Welby showed awful judgement in marrying the couple, as he 'fell under their spell'."

I saw that on TicToc and assumed it was a hoax....

I am reading the Statements that other bishops are putting out

So obsequious, weasel words, praying for him, all ‘respecting’ his decision to resign , and referencing his ‘taking institutional responsibility’.

None thanking, or even ‘respecting’ Dr Helen Ann Hartley.

They turn my stomach.

We have the Crown, The Church, Government. And only one of those has any form of accountable democracy. And then only the Commons.

“There is only one other country in the world who has unelected clerics legislating in their government.
Iran.”

The DM probably lifted it from the MN Royals board 😂

Sadly not

Royals board is appropriate for anything about royals. Chat is ephemeral and this is an important issue.

@Cynic17

Excellent post. Sadly, some people seem to need a scapegoat, because the perpetrator has died and therefore cannot be punished.
It really wasn't an excellent post. In any senior position the top person takes the rap. That's how it works. Do you honestly think the CEO of a company knows what rogue traders are doing 6 tiers below them? Of course they don't. But they set and create the environment for the behaviour to thrive. That's why they take the fall. Even other senior clerics are clear that Welsh holds responsibility. The judgement is that it is very unlikely welby was not aware of more than admitted. Welby himself admits he made grave mistakes.

You may not be aware of the issues at Winchester college in the whole sordid event. We are for a variety of reasons. We have received several communications from the college including detailed reports of parents and masters conversations and housemasters expressing concerns at the time.

This was all communicated to the church and welby was in the group that was involved in the communications.

You are at best naive. At worst support paedophile supporters.

Stand down on topics you know little about.

FGS @AgileGreenSeal , are you that out of touch? The last thing that the world needs to hear on this is a quote (s) from the bible.

It needs action, plans, arrests, trials and prison sentences, not bible quotes.

My post was not a general comment on the awful situation.

It was a very specific reply to @hairbearbunches who stated

“What do you think the Head of the Church makes of his loyal servants being either abusers or abuse enablers? ”

and

“Would be nice to have a statement from Him!”

The only sad thing here's that the victim didn't get justice. They didn't get justice because the abuse was covered up. Welby was a key part of the cover up. Disgraceful.

Please don't paint Welby as a poor little lamb. He turned a blind eye to the atrocities and focused on his career instead of rocking the boat. Due to his and others' inaction, more boys suffered - while Welby preached and enjoyed the comfort, safety and power of being the ABC.

Absolutely. He stood by and allowed this to happen. And I so agree with a PP. The buck stops at the top. And if Welby had anything about him he would be creating a huge stink about those who also allowed this to happen.

It grieves me to see the outpouring of support from his Bishops, it really does.

My heart goes out to those poor boys, now adults, who have carried round this abuse for all their lives. Some of whom aren't here because of suicide.

I am astonished and sickened at the support for Welby on this thread.

He knew.
He did nothing. (forget about him 'reporting it to the police'. He let it slide with a feeling of relief)

It’s tone deaf in any context for me.

I linked an article to a poster who was vigorously defending Welby.

In it, a victim said he had read the Makin report and within it there was a note written by Smyth. The victim eloquently explained what seeing this abuser's signature did to him. It brought it all back, the frequent sadistic physical and spiritual abuse and beatings in his shed. Some boys even had to wear nappies to staunch the flow of blood. Five of 13 who were in one of his camps had 12 beatings of about 650 strokes, the other eight received about 14,000 strokes.

(By the way, this info was taken from Church Times)

Sorry to be so graphic but let's not defend the man at the top who knew.