Poor Ds is stuffed isn't he?

[Mainlyfair]

He's already spent a year NEET as he didn't get on with A levels (undiagnosed dyslexia). Now he's had an accident and spent weeks off college have started afresh this year. They want him to defer but as he's 18 now, he won't be eligible for the second year will he?

He's fucked isn't he?

No he can do an Access Course in college for free as he’s not got a level 3. Will need to be 19 however.

he could also do a level 3 apprenticeship.

i am a Post 16 SEND processional in addition to being professional doctorate in education (year 3) researcher with a specialism in SEND Education policy. I have a formal diagnosis of Autism, hearing impaired with dyslexia and a rare disease therefore understand the nuances of disability and the impact upon education.

Thank you yes, I felt you were very well qualified to offer to help! I have pm'd you. Very grateful.

He can do what My DD is, at 19 - an Access to HE Diploma? Takes on year and is equivalent to A Levels. If she gets maximum points (3x distinctions) its the equivalent to 144 UCAS points/3 x As at A level. Fully funded as she doesn’t have a L3 qualification (dropped out of 6th form twice due to undiagnosed ADHD, on top of previously diagnosed autism). We tried distance learning A Levels after that (ie in 3rd year post GCSEs) but she hated that, so went back to start again. She’ll be a year or two older than her peers when she gets to uni next year, but the UCAS stats indicated that 20-35% of students are 19 or 20 in their first year at uni, depending on the course, so she won’t be the only one.

So no, he’s not fucked, just needs to take a different path.

Thank you @CautiousLurker1 sounds like you've really been through it with your DD. I know there are other options and different routes, it's getting DS to see that as right now he just wants to finish what he started.

Can totally understand that - we’ve had a few wobbles as DD beats herself up over not sticking to it with A levels etc (she has had significant MH issues, but feels ashamed rather than proud of the fact she has been resilient enough to go back and try this route.)

As an aside, as a few friends took detours before getting into uni this year, many of the tutors and admissions staff said that they were actually deeply impressed by the fact that students had applied having (for eg) failed A Levels and slogged at home to resit, or having refused to give up and going via an access or foundation diploma. They felt that this showed a commitment and a drive to get to university and that the A Levels/diplomas they finally earned were in a sense more valuable as they demonstrated these YP were resilient etc.

My DD wouldn’t hear it from me, but when friends fed this back her attitude to her new course changed completely - and her belief in the fact that she could get there and be seen as just as good as the kids who followed the traditional path/time line finally took hold. I’d recommend open days and talking to admissions staff (email/chats) to get their feedback on students who’ve taken alternative routes/detours and offer different qualifications to A Levels. It’s good to know there is a back up if doing A Levels becomes impossible due to LEA funding.

That's lovely to read, thank you @CautiousLurker1. Well done your DD! And yes, annoying they have to hear it elsewhere before they believe it! And in a way that's my concern. His world has been very small this last year, he was really looking forward to getting back out in the world and making new friends. I'm not sure how well he'll cope waiting another year to start progressing again. I guess what can't be cured must be endured.

My ds left part way through his A levels due to ME/CFS & MH problems, he is now doing a foundation year at university before starting an Urban Studies & Planning degree. Not completing A levels is no bar to going to university. Let him get well, there is so much support at University for anyone who has any kind of health problem, the support my ds is getting is incredible & so much better than he got at school.

OP, I can’t give advice on the ins and outs of the funding system, but I just wanted to post that my education was completely screwed back in the day. I won’t run through the circumstances because they’re not that relevant, but many years (decades) later I have a very successful life and career. He’s not fucked, he just needs to find his path. It took me a while to find mine, but it sounds like he’s got great family support to help him do that. Best of luck.

As he would be 18 at the start of the 2 year course he would be funded for both years.

Before college withdraws him though check they would enrol him on A levels. Some colleges have safeguarding policies. Mine would allow it.

As pp have also said he could do an Access course and that will give routes into most options.

How much college will he miss?

You really need to check the college’s admissions policy. Our massive college( only 6th form college in the area)would not let my daughter carry on her course ( even with an EHCP ) because she would turn 19 during the course and safeguarding of under 18s comes first. There is a distinction between adult and non adult courses.

He is definitely not stuffed though as there are access to uni courses and apprenticeships. As others have said he is just taking a different route. I remember feeling like this with my dd but we’re all conditioned to think our kids have to do the normal
linear route- they don’t!

He can look at eg volunteering or community projects in the meantime something once a week....
He does not have to wait around....
What's his subjects he wants to pursue?
Something linked or even not linked
Look in local community

Don’t let anyone put you/DS off requesting an EHCNA. The only lawful test you first need to focus on is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. You/DS may have to appeal (the vast majority of appeals are upheld) but some young people do get EHCPs for the first time post GCSEs. Unfortunately, some LAs and educational institutions incorrectly tell parents their DC don’t need or won’t get an EHCP.

Without an EHCP, funding can be provided for the whole course as long as DS is still 18 on the 31st August prior to the start of the course.

With an EHCP, funding can be until 25, or 26 in some cases. The general college’s admission policy is irrelevant for those with EHCPs, even for those over 18. If they are named (and there are limited reasons the LA can refuse to name your preferred placement), they must admit. Sadly, lots of colleges give incorrect information about this too. Saying they need to agree to taking the young person. An offer of a place isn’t required unless the college is wholly independent.

My DD got an ehcp during y12.
She has done 2 years at college
Then a 1 year break for mh & english qualification
And is now back at college for a third year, under her ehcp.

I failed my A'levels then dropped out of retakes as I just wasn't into them. I worked for a few years, then once I was settled in a job(I ended up being an Accounts Assistant) and worked out what I wanted to do, I went back to college in the evening and did an Access course, got on to a good degree programme at a really good university, worked my butt off to get my degree and it's the one thing I am most proud of in my life.

I know funding is probably different now (I didn't pay for my Access course) but I wanted to say He isn't stuffed and he does have options and he isn't the only one.

Thank you. Really grateful for these positive tales.

That isn’t true. After my daughter (who has a EHCP)was impacted by this I contacted our county independent advisory department and they can and have.It’s a massive outstanding sixth form college and the only A level provision in the area. Their admissions criteria make it clear that ( even with an EHCP )the course has to be age appropriate. For safeguarding reasons learners must be no older than 17 by 31 August in the year they start an academic programme of study for non adult 16-18 courses. A levels.There are some exceptions for vocational courses if they turn 18 by 31st Aug. Safeguarding trumps everything.

Said dd is now doing to be doing an Access which is actually better for her.

It’s a moot point for the op though as getting an EHCP would take a long time!

It isn’t a moot point. EHCPs can last until 25, or 26 in some cases. Even with having to appeal at each stage there is plenty of time to get an EHCP for it not to be moot.

Every word I posted is correct. Unfortunately, as you have found, SENDIASS often gives incorrect information and repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. It isn’t uncommon for institutions to give information that contradicts the law either. For non-wholly independent settings, an offer of a place is not required. They can be named against their will and, if necessary, forced to admit via JR. There is a legal exception to the LA naming the preferred placement when the setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person. The LA claiming safeguarding for a 19 year old in a college would not meet the high legal threshold set out in law.

BTW, SENDIASS receive LA funding so aren’t truly independent. A minority are good, but far too many will ultimately toe the party line.

It’s neither here nor there, they are doing it( how many 20-25 year olds do you see on Alevel courses with 16-18 year olds in 6th form colleges) and nobody really has the time, energy or money to challenge it.

Many people choose to challenge unlawful behaviour. It is why there are so many appeals to SENDIST (the vast majority of which are successful). It is also why there is a high demand for PAP letters. Parents and young people don’t have to accept unlawfulness. You may have decided not to challenge it, but many do.

It doesn’t cost money to challenge unlawful behaviour. Appeals to SENDIST are free. The young people can be eligible for legal aid in their own right which can fund independent assessments or they can seek funding from charities such as Parents in Need. For JR, because the young people can be eligible for legal aid in their own right even the pre-action letter can be funded, which is the part that usually costs families in JR cases.

Many post 19 young people with EHCPs are in mainstream colleges.

I’m not sure how following clearly outlined terms and conditions is unlawful. My dd will be at college but she won’t be on an Alevel course. She will be on what the college deems is age appropriate and does not impact their safeguarding rules. The other big college nearest is exactly the same. Parents complaining has been in the media. It has made no difference what so ever. Going further will take years and energy which we don’t have. My daughter wishes to get on with her life and to be in education. So parents need to be aware of terms and conditions.

As I said, you may have decided not to pursue it further. That is your choice, obviously. But it is not the law and it doesn’t not take years to enforce either. The colleges terms and conditions do not override SEN law. Parents need to be aware of the actual law and not what myths LAs and some institutions would like parents to believe.

He's not fucked. He's still a teenager. Do not let him hear you say anything like that around him.

For various reasons my DH had a circuitous route through his education and didn't graduate until he was 26.

Stop panicking and help him find both short term positivity and a long term path to where he wants to be.

Life is not a sprint.

So SEN law can override safeguarding?Are you sure about that. How many 20 year old plus students do you see on 16-18 Alevel courses. There is Access and they’re not actually denying students anything but steering towards the age appropriate course to attain their goals on their EHCP if uni is highlighted. My dd wants to go to uni. They’re offering access but not Alevels due to safeguarding rules . They can argue they’re providing provision for the outcomes on her EHCP.

As I said, the college or LA claiming safeguarding issues would not meet the high threshold set out in law not to name a college, and if F was written correctly it would prevent being placed on an access course where A levels were appropriate and wanted. It’s just like LAs claiming a placement can’t be named because to do so would be incompatible with the efficient education of others when there is nothing that would meet that high threshold. It is why the vast majority of appeals are upheld because the vast majority of the time the LA’s arguments do not stand up in a court of law.

As I also said, many of the post 19 pupils with EHCPs attend mainstream colleges. Some of them do A levels.

SEP in F must be provided and can be enforced. The college can’t just provide what they want to and ignore what they don’t want to stick to if the EHCP is written correctly. Not providing the SEP detailed, specified and quantified F leaves them and the LA (who is ultimately responsible for ensuring the SEP is provided) open to legal action.

It is brilliant your DD is happy. As I posted, you have chosen not to pursue the matter further as is your choice but OP (and anyone else reading) needs to know she/her DS can should they wish to.