Choosing primary schools

[lemonyfox]

Hello! Posting in Chat for a bit more traffic.

My son starts primary school next year and I'm stuck on applications. We're lucky that we have a few great primaries round here, but with being relatively new to the area I don't have any background knowledge of schools that you usually build up from living in the same place.

I'm stuck between two schools. There's no difference in Ofsted ratings or SAT results. I've seen both in person on Open Days.

In other people's opinions, what's the important deciding factor on where you sent your child to Primary?

I wouldn't prefer a class of 12 for my kids, would be prioritising the larger school for this reason if all else is truly equal.

Agree though that a 2 minute drive must mean it's walkable. We walk a mile to primary school and it's a 5 minute drive.

@NameChange30 your most recent comment IS super helpful though so thank you, as the smaller class sizes are my main concerns re: one of the options we're considering

Mumsnet is really negative about small schools and throws around a lot of generalisations about them being poorly funded etc. I work in a school with year groups of 4-10 and it's better funded than the two form entry I was at previously. The children have far more opportunities (sports, music, trips) too. Friendships are rarely an issue because children build genuine friendships with both boys and girls and children in different year groups.

No need to be defensive about it.
We're the same distance from school and we certainly don't have time to walk it.
We cycle, luckily it's a safe route to school and back - my kids are old enough to ride their own bikes now, although DC2 is a bit slow, and when they are younger there are various options, bike seat, trailer, cargo bike etc.
We have one car which we don't use much, and an electric cargo bike which we bought specifically for the school run. I realise not everyone is in a position to do this (in terms of safe cycle routes where they live, finances to buy a decent bike, etc - although they are obviously cheaper than cars!)
I see a lot of parents and kids scooting to school as well.

I hope your child's other parent will do their share of school runs, it certainly helps if you can work as a team and share the burden.

Is it a state school or private school? Which country?

In England, a state school with such low numbers must be very rare, surely.

Friendliness from the staff / head. Openness and seeming happy / wanting to talk to you rather than just doing the tour schtick. Class sizes and how larger classes are supported (ie is there SEN support for those who need it, and how many TAs are there). The facilities - do they have forest school area on site, nice big playground or playing field, ability to offer lots of sports and clubs for the kids. Does the school feel happy and warm for the children.

I’d ask on your local Facebook group (can be anonymous). It all depends on your child and where you think he/she will fit. Is it quite structured or is it more play based? How inclusive are they of additional needs and how do they deal with that? What’s the outside play space like and how often are they there? Whats the jump up to year 1 like - are they suddenly all at tables or is it still play based for an extra year?
what do they do for homework? Are they online for everything or not? I’ve found all the ‘good’ primary schools around us are incredibly different!
are the kids happy?

And what’s the head like? They set the school tone. How well did you get on with and enjoy chatting to the teachers? They will be everything for the next 7 years.

@Aytr it's good to hear the other side of it, thanks. The smaller school did have a really nice family/community feel to it and I had a stronger "yes" gut feel for it. But I've now seen our closer primary school and also really liked that. Though perhaps didn't have the same strong gut instinct. It's closer though, so I'm trying to figure out how important closeness should be versus other factors.

@NameChange30 not intending to sound defensive no. It's just the way our jobs work, I work from home and my husband is in a field based role. But we're used to it, we have a nice life and it's certainly not a spot for resentment at all.

I liked teaching in rough schools the best, the kids were awful but the staff stuck together, they had to. Not the kind parents like. The staff in nicer schools were horrible. Me and my friend, also a teacher, searched for years on supply to find a "nice" school, but never had much luck. Evan the ones that thought they were something special, found out they weren't.

If the closer school has ~25 children per year/class I'd go with that one.
What about Ofsted, how recent were the inspections and have you read the reports?
And if you're on Facebook you could ask in local parent groups for feedback on the schools.

My kids school is like this. There are currently 12 in reception, 10 in y2, and only 5 in y1! Y1 and 2 have now been merged to help the numbers. It’s an amazing school, very warm and caring, the perfect soft start for them. It’s only an infant though; by the time they get to y2 you can see they need something bigger. It’s a state school, part gov funded and part funded by charity status and supported by parents

@Newsenmum interesting you say this, as at one of the schools the Y1 teacher made several points to say the jump from Reception play can be quite harsh on the children as Y1 is then straight to tables and structures. She said this was down to the curriculum set by the powers that be. Is that not normal? I suppose they have to learn that style eventually and I guess I felt like that was normal in my own naive way.

"One was during the day while school was on so he was a bit bored. The second one was in the evening and they'd set the classrooms up with little bits and bobs to look at/play with."

If you can I suggest you ask to visit the second school during the school day. Otherwise you're kind of comparing apples and oranges.

I recently attended two open evenings but had previously done tours of the schools during the school day and definitely got much more out of the tours when the schools were "in action".

Our school is like this, smallest year group is 4, biggest is 12. It’s certainly not for everyone and I think it takes excellent teachers to make it work, but when it does work it’s brilliant. Ours doesn’t feel underfunded, there may be some missing bells and whistles but the opportunities outweigh that. Our experience has been that our kids are better at making secure friendships because they have to learn to get on, you can’t just pick a new best friend!

But it wouldn’t be for everyone. Even 25 isn’t heaving by today’s standards.

I agree that location and practicalities make a massive difference. Have you driven to both at drop off and pick up time to see what it’s like?

Rural area of England. There are at least a dozen similar sized schools (under 100 pupils) within a 30 minute drive. It comes up on MN now and again and there are definitely other areas of the country that are similar. Cumbria has some very small schools too.

Edited to add: state, LA not academy

I’d go for the bigger class size. Schools are funded per pupil and budgets are super tight anyway. Also, 12 is so small. There’s more chance of making friends in a bigger class. One of our friends has a son in a small primary and there are only two other boys in his class and they’re not very similar to my friends son so he’s struggled a bit with friendships. All of his friends have come from sports clubs outside of school. His parents have had to try hard to find opportunities for him to make friends.

It’s common, it’s not mandatory.

As I said, mine is at a tiny school so things are a bit different. Mixed R/1/2 class, even in year 2 while there is a lot more “work”, they still get play, they are rarely at a desk, if they’re doing worksheets they might be lying on the floor with them, if the weather is decent they take books outside. In fact the whole school is rarely at a desk, I popped in the other day and year 4 were sitting under their tables to discuss their topic! There’s still a jump from reception to year 1 but different schools handle it in different ways.

@NameChange30

Closer bigger school: Good, June 2021, previously Good
Slightly further smaller school: Good, May 2024, previously Outstanding

@LetsChaseTrees I have yes, luckily we don't get much traffic where we live so the thought of the further away one has never put me off considering it

I would disregard the 2021 Ofsted as it's more than 3 years ago, although can still be interesting to read the report.

May 2024 report is obviously recent and therefore relevant.

Ofsted isn't the be all and end all, of course, but it's helpful info as part of the whole picture.

@DanceMumTaxi thank you, I think you've maybe hit the nail on the head with my concerns about the small class size. Especially as we keep being told 2020 is another low birth year.

School budgets and allocated funding are based on pupil numbers. Up to 30 children in Reception, Year 1 and Y2 classes. If the admission number is lower than 30 per class for a significant number of year groups then the only way to balance the books is to mix classes. If they are not mixed now then they will be pretty soon as low numbers per class and single year group classes with a qualified teacher for each are not sustainable financially based on the funding model for state schools.

@AbstractArtist yes I can see how that would need to happen, particularly when two consecutive years have low pupil numbers

If you think you might go for that option it would be worth asking the school their plans re class structure for throughout the school also whether the year group are taught by a qualified teacher all day every day. Some schools imply small class sizes and say they don’t mix year groups but then put a Teaching Assistant with one year for part of the day whilst the teacher teaches other year and vice versa. There are huge numbers of incredible TAs but you would want to go into that set up with your eyes wide open.