What happens at court if the NRP doesn't want a lot of time?

[Whathappensincourt]

To cut a long story short, Ex and I are going to get things settled in court regarding our dc.

He wants one day every second weekend.

He says he can't fit anything else in around his work (he works 3 days a week).

We have tried this and it is very unsettling for the kids, I would rather every second weekend and then a night through the week every second week so he at least sees them weekly.

He also wants to decide on holidays when he wants and not have anything set.

I don't want this as, historically, he has decided at the start of the holidays and kicked off if I can't accommodate it.

Will a court say that he has to have more contact that he wants, and will he be allowed to just decide if he can be arsed taking them at all in the holidays?

He also doesn't want to have any contact at all with me, and wants to arrange everything through our older child (9).

He hasn't seen the kids for months at this point as he wants it all set in court first. We are due mediation in the next couple of months but I would rather it just be set by court and stuck to.

I have no idea what powers the court have here.

No the Court won't make him have any extra contact at all. In fact, whatever contact ends up being written in a Court order doesn't mean anything on his part tbh.

The court order only means that YOU have to make your DC's available to him on a specific day./time, but he doesn't have to turn up if he doesn't want to, and he can't be in breach of the order.

So he's chosen voluntarily not to have contact with them that you offered before it goes to court? What a twat. He won't be made to have more contact than he wants, but no he won't be allowed to piss about at school holidays. Those arrangements will be agreed at court and need to be stuck to.

They have the power to give him set days and times and the power to stop him from taking them at other times than in the agreement but not the power to make him take the children for those times if he doesn't want to.

I wasn't sure how it worked.

So theoretically he could agree to what I want - every second weekend, one night every second week, and maybe 3 or 4 set weeks in the holidays, and he could just show up every second weekend and not get in trouble, but I would if I didn't make sure they were ready?

He's a shit dad that does less than the minimum really, he's happily telling people I'm withholding the kids at the minute when he's just being an arsehole because he's not getting his own way.

That's why I want it all set out.

Surely it's pointless going to court over this.

Even if the court say he should have them more, if he just doesn't turn up the court can't make him.

Plus you lose child maintenance even though he isn't actually having them on his days.

It sounds like it will be pointless.

It's detrimental to the dc with the tiny amount he sees them, the little one comes back wetting the bed and claiming illness almost every single time.

It's been much better when he sees them more, at least weekly, or not at all, it's been great this last little while tbh.

I just want the best for the kids and this half in half out crap is upsetting for them.

Yes - you are correct . The comments take him to court usually aren’t in the Rp benefit . They can use court orders to reduce maintenance via cms.

He can still not turn up - still let you down last minute .

Court stipulates when the resident parent has to make the children available for contact. You will be in trouble if they aren’t available at those times. The court can’t make him show up.

You are right. A Child Arrangement Order sets out the times and days that you have to make the kids available. There’s no repercussions if he doesn’t turn up.

It might be worth getting one so you don’t need his permission to take your kids on holiday. Its super common for a CAO to allow resident parents to take the children on holiday for up to 28 days without NRP’s permission.

Court could insist that he specifies which week(s) of the school holidays are his and that he has to give you X weeks notice. Like the CAO, there would be no legal repercussion if he didn’t pick them up.

How depressing, so the whole system is basically set in the NRPs favour?

We have to go to mediation first, but that seemed really pointless to me as they can't really decide anything, just mediate when neither of us wants to back down.

The thought of the kids having to be ready and him not appearing is heartbreaking.

For court you let him push for what he wants, making it clear that the DC will be available as required but that your main focus is the impact on the children and therefore your preference would be for a simple and clear routine for the children, and that for the organisation of childcare you would like at least a full calendar month's notice before each school holiday if what days or nights he wants.
This is completely reasonable. Keep a record, then go back in 6 months and ask for a revision if necessary.

It isn't pointless. It sets an expectation. Then if he doesn't turn up, you go back to court and get a variation. He can't then turn up wanting holidays etc.

I totally agree. Seems like the RP has to do everything and the NRP can bugger about and hurt their kids with no comeback.

From my experience years ago as a RP with the Family Court, I advise any other RP to not even go to Court in the first place if you can help it, although sometimes theres no choice as the NRP makes an application.

All the child arrangements order does is give control to the NRP, as previously said, the NRP doesn't have to turn up if they don't want to. For the RP, it's no fun being tied to an order that only you have to abide by.

If you can stop the Court process, then I would if I were you.

You need to try to settle this in mediation. Why would you spend masses of money to force him to have your children?

Unfortunately the legal system cannot force a man to see his kids for more than he wants to, as long he pays
Best to just accept his “offer” and then negotiate child support

Going to court was great as it means I can go away on holiday without having to get his permission etc and it is useful for other reasons to have it set out formally who DC live with and when they are with you and when you have to make them available.

Yes he is a shit dad and should do more but for your own peace of mind try and view them visiting him sporadically like them visiting an Aunt or Uncle that lives a fair distance away, you wouldn't think too badly of that situation.

Yes, it is set out so you have to make the children available but he doesn't actually have to turn up. Going through the 9 year old is not appropriate, there are proper parenting apps for that.

I would set out what holidays you are happy with, for me I said Christmas eve 12 noon- 12 noon boxing day so DD wasn't interrupted who ever she was with, and Christmas and her birthday alternated, Mothers / Fathers and parents birthday spent with relevant parent. Her Dad's never been fussed about the holidays but I would have offered the first two weeks in August to him if he was so I could book my holiday in peace and probably halved the half terms mostly as DD was always run down and a week each at Easter. If you set out what you are happy with you can get on with your life knowing they are definitely with you then, even if his dates are a mystery.

Have a transition activity ready when they return, for DD I ran her a bubble bath no matter the time of day, she could play, get washed and back into comfy home clothes and it made transitioning from one parent to another easier.

My court order states ex gets to pick when he has the kids for holidays but he has to give me certain amount of notice. This has worked really well as he can't mess me about and would help you with the last minute thing your ex does.

You may have an argument that if he's only having one night a fortnight then large chunks of holiday time is not best for the children as they won't have a good bond with him. How do your children feel about holidays? If they enjoy them then don't block it just get it formed up when.

Arrangeons contact through a child is completely inappropriate. If you focus your argument on the child's needs then the court won't order this. There are app these days.

Ultimately though court won't force him to have the contact. And you should be aware child maintenance service calculate based on court order if there is one not the actual contact. My ex doesn't have the kids the amount he fought for but he only fought so he could reduce his maintenance and because he wanted to 'win'

The court won't make him have more than he wants but they will conceed having some kind of reliable rule for how holidays are handled so that you can make plans without worrying your ex will have the power to destroy them. This will involve there being specified sections of the holiday when DC will need to be "available" to go with ex if he chooses where you haven't made any special plans, and other sections where you can make arrangements confident that he has no power over you at those times.

I really can't think that either mediators or judge would be impressed with him wanting to place that amount of responsibility for contact on a 9 year old.
It sounds like, if he's not going to be willing to do every other weekend, you'd be better getting a court order for the bare minimum he's agreed to so that you don't have the issue of having the kids ready and him not showing up. I know that sucks.

Thank you all, I really had no idea this was how it all worked.

It's detrimental to the dc to see him so infrequently, every 2 weeks doesn't work for them, so it seems unfair I'll be forced into that and have the repercussions.

In 2 or 3 years they will be fine with fortnightly I think, but the youngest can't cope with it just now.

Already with the holidays I message at the start of the year with holiday dates and he tells me he can't confirm, I message him a month before, before I start booking in clubs and childcare and he days he will get back to me. Then messages 9yo a week before he wants them with all these plans, knowing I've already covered, and paid for , the holidays.

He even let me down when I was going for an operation a few years back, said he would cover the kids, and then, morning of, didn't answer the door and messaged to say he forgot and was at work, then kicked off because my boyfriends mum kindly took them, and he didn't know her.

He's just an arsehole honestly, I just want him to be all in with parenting, or all out.

I would let him be all out if I were you. As you've read on this thread a court order will only place obligations on you not on him which will be infuriating. Just quietly drop the court idea, let him see them fortnightly, if he hasn't seen them for months he will probably drift out of their lives.
As for holidays, book the ones you want then he gets what is left over.

I would say though that there appears to be very few holiday clubs etc in the last 2 weeks of the summer holiday so if you can get him to take those that would probably work well for you.