Do you need your parent/s to die before April 2026? *MNHQ adding content warning mentions suicide*

[Spatulation]

Absolutely reeling that we're losing the farm that my grandfather bought, my father expanded and my son hoped to takeover.

The budget today means that we'll owe £1000000 in tax and we won't be able to get a mortgage as that's 5 times our annual income and over 35000 times bigger than last year's profit.

We own soil. That's it.

Agriculture has the highest suicide rate in any profession - sadly I can see it hitting an all time high in the next 18 months. My father (83) is already talking about it.

You said..."try make the OP look bad for coming from a working family".. implying those on UC who you already referred to don't.

Unless you meant farm instead?

Yes, I'm sure there's plenty of damp land in the uk that would be ideal for growing rice. So for the politics of envy we can force the farmers to sell up the land that was used to feed British residents to Chinese agriconglomorates to grow rice so they can send it back to China.

and anyone who thinks that's outlandish just look at the world around us, we shouldn't be surprised by anything any more.

I hear you @Spatulation. I am
a Londoner, born and bred so def not from a farming family.

But my MIL was from a rural family. We still own a few fields on the outskirts of her family village which we rent to the local farmer. He would be considered small fry, I suppose. When he retires or passes away, there is no one to keep the farm going. The land will be sold and being in the SE, it will be to a developer.

The impact that selling the land will have on the local village will be immeasurable. The village could easily triple in size. Some would argue that this is progress, and maybe it is. But once those fields are built on, there's no going back.

So no more locally produced pork and lamb for the local restaurants and farm shops. Maybe people think that this is ok. Just bring it in from further afield.

Once the farmer sells his land, it will make no sense for us to keep ours as they are ideal for their current use: grazing sheep.

FWIW I am a Labour voter. I have been hit by the VAT on private school fees. But I do think the changes to inheritance tax on farms is short sighted. There will be a number of families like yours that do not have long term financial/ inheritance planning in place because they didn't need it.

It may feel too late but get financial advice and get it quick. Good luck.

This is so sad OP. It’s just another way that the UK government is giving away the UK and its identity.

Doesn't the way the tax works mean that the inheritance tax bill has to be paid before the land/ even oart of the land can be sold? This is the problem a lot of people run into. Unless you have cash available, there is no way to pay the inheritance tax bill and the estate isn't released via probate so they cannot sell assets from the estate to pay the bill and are left with an unpayable tax bill (to which HMRC add extortionate interest).

Op I'm so sorry to hear this. What a shit show this country is turning into. We need our farmers to be supported not killed off.

It's not that simple - financial margins in farming are very small, and variable. So to be financially viable the farm needs to be large enough...selling off parts of a farm may result in a business which is no longer viable in the long run.

It's not hysteria. We need more family farms, not industrial ones. And Britain's food security is already appalling.

Hmmm….

I’m not a farmer so my figures are guesstimates gleaned from a quick perusal of farming forums.

If a farm worth £6m has to be sold to pay IHT, assume that the land is £12k per acre, farmhouse worth £500k, associated sundries the same, rounding figures for ease of maths…

That £6m farm works out to be just over 400 acres. For arable average yield per acre £250, so £100,000 for the farm. From this farmers need to pay insurance, maintenance and day-to-day living costs. The inheritance tax (20%) on a £6m farm would be £1m, so ten years’ gross income! At the upper range of £500 per acre then they only need to starve and not pay taxes for 5 years… 🙄

No problem, say some, just sell a fifth of your land and carry on with a smaller farm! Well, ok, we’ll ignore any potential Capital Gains Tax and plough on…

Farm is now 330 acres, because they felt they needed to keep the house to live in and the machinery & sundries to make it possible to actually farm the land…

On death that 330 acre farm (assuming same cost and productivity for land unlikely though it is) has been bringing in £82,500. If (again unlikely) the farmhouse and associated sundries are still worth the same amount, then the estate is worth £4.9m so IHT of £780k is due.

Right, time for another sale…

Keeping the house and machinery, remember?

Sell another 65 acres.

Farm is now 265 acres. Same thing happens, next generation only have 212 acres, the generation after them only 170 acres…

At what point do you have to accept that a farm is too small to be viable?

Because if the farming family continue to live in the farmhouse (£500k) and own machinery and stock (£500k), then the maximum acerage they can pass on to later generations without incurring inheritance tax is…

0 acres.

No it doesn't. If you really think that, it shows you haven't understood the issue in the slightest.

Inheriting a farm isn't a cash rich asset unless you sell it.

Unless you are suggesting it would be great if all farms were sold? Who will buy them? Certainly not more farmers.

Yes.

Exactly - what exactly is "wealth". For some it might be sitting around all day with £5m in your bank, and for some it would be the ability to spend your life cultivating soil, growing crops and raising livestock to feed the population. The farmers I know would not value £5m in their bank with no farm to work - you really can't assume that all people feel the same way as you about cash versus hard graft.

The point is that the farm (like many others) is barely covering its costs in its current size. If a chunk is sold off to pay the tax bill then the left over farm is now unviable as a business.

I'm sorry your dad is so upset op. My grandad was a dairy farmer, my father army so didn't inherit.
You do need to change the farm to a limited company or your father gives the farm to your son now.
The government is not after you, they are looking for the 'banker wa*nkers'.
Fwiw the limit is too low, you'd be hard pushed to get a farmhouse without more than a garden for £1m in my neck of the woods. We live looking out over farmland. I'd hate to see that changed.
Make sure you have a family plot on your land ( if you get my drift). It can't be built on for 75 years. You'll get through this.
If you NFU insured they have free advice lines.

I get that but if the farm is big enough, some of it could go, surely. However if the family don't want to do that, fair enough.

The farm won't run at a profit if it's not big enough. I've mentioned early that I live in an area of small crofts and everyone has to have a second job or business to get by as crofting alone doesn't make enough to live on.

@peanutbuttertoasty You’re assuming it’s the result of mere incompetence. Sadly I think it’s very deliberate policy infused with belligerent communist dogma (brought on by intellectual incompetence of course…)
Like with the VAT on school fees, I fear that the idiots are not for turning …

VAT on school fees, on the face of it, affected a small portion of the population. Protecting the UK's food security affects us all.

Governments can and do change policies if they realise that they alienate more voters than they can afford to lose. It may be that their ideologies might not welcome a change of heart, but their pragmatism might demand it.

I'm not against this because of my overall views on the Labour party but because it seems like a poorly thought through policy that will put us all at risk. If a campaign against it is going to take off, it needs to be made on the basis of reasoned arguments and not name calling. Though I appreciate the frustration behind your comment, maybe you might want to dial it down a bit if you want to enlist the support of Labour voters. After all they are probably the one group that the Government can't afford to disregard.

Anyone else bemused by the fact that we were promised that this budget would not affect working people?

Are farming families, the ones who produce the food we eat, not working people?

We appear to have gone from one set of lying politicians in government to another.

Some of the comments on here - jesus wept.

It's clear that a lot of people simply don't understand how much we need our farmers! No farmers = no food. Simple as that.

Farmers mostly work their arses off and are at the mercy of the weather and often get royally screwed over by supermarkets. This budget is an absolute stinker but removing the IHT relief from family farms is just bonkers.

Jeremy Clarkson is making noises about getting involved and I hope he does. We need a wake up call in this country and a people's movement to reverse this stupid, shortsighted decision by this shocker of a government.

Raising taxes is always going to affect some groups of people. The thing is no one ever thinks it should be them.

The farm is only worth money if it's sold. The OPs family had no plans to sell it. They scrape along by farming it, earning very little at all, but feeding the rest of us.
When Dad dies £1000000 will have to be found. They don't have it. The could sell a sixth of the farm. But who will by it? A golf course? A property developer? The Chinese? Not a local farmers for sure as a smallish chunk of farm land absolutely cannot turn a profit.
And they get to sell more when the next generation die, making the farm small and unsustainable. And giving the UK no food when this happens nationwide. Do we want to be reliant on importing all our food? That is so so dangerous.
I know he is super annoying op, but Jeremy Clarkson is galvanising feeling against this measure. You have huge support. I just cannot see this actually going ahead. It is absolutely crazy, not even just for farmers, but for the country.

I am so sorry so many people are being so insensitive to you - I get its not about the value of the land its the fact you would have to sell the farm or part of it to pay taxes to keep it. Its not about the money its about the heritage and your family's future. If you wanted the money you would just sell the farm!

And when everyone's food costs go up because families like you are selling their farms and the incoming owners have to include the cost of buying these farms into their cost ratios and pricing than everyone will maybe finally get it that this was a bad idea.

@lifeturnsonadime We appear to have gone from one set of lying politicians to another.

I think this lot are worse than their predecessors. At least the blue lot never claimed to be the party of ‘working people’.

@Brananan then I really don't understand many of the comments on the thread saying "just sell some of it to pay the rax bill" because aside from that being a disaster for UK farming, that would be illegal. The IHT has to be paid before decendents inherit the estate, was always my understanding of the tax law.

Education sector? Really? With childrens' mental health in freefall and the number of parents pulling their kids out of school to home educate at an all time high?