I know employee is lying, but I don't think I can bring it up.

[tiredconfusedhungry]

Sorry, this is probably going to be a weird/frustrating thread because I can't add too many details or specifics for fear of being outed. But I just need to sound off a bit.

But I've managed a person for 10 years now. Over the years there has been multiple issues, performance wise and with sickness. I get so far into the process of absence management and performance management when they pull their socks up enough for it to be dropped (not by me). I should also add we have shocking higher management and ineffective HR dept.

So anyway, this week, something has happened which has warranted time off again and I envisage more time off in the near future. In a roundabout and quite random way I've found out they are lying. This is now winding me the fuck up. I'm not sure I can do anything about this because of the circumstances I've come to find out. It turns out we have a mutual friend. But neither the friend nor employee know I know them both. The friendship between them both is very new and through a niche activity. Friend showed me a picture of her at the activity and employee is in the pictures so I've now worked out that 'Tracy' from work and my friends new mate 'Tracy' are one and the same.

But now I'm torn because ultimately it is sickness fraud and with her track record would probably be dismissal. But will I look like a nut job with a vendetta if I bring this up to senior management. Especially given their tendency to turn a blind eye to her poor performance and sickness in the past. Essentially I don't want her in my team any more, she is draining. The rest of us have to pick up the slack constantly and I've had enough.

If you have actual evidence it's harder for them to ignore. It might just be that nothing could be proved in previous cases.

So you've had enough.

And you now seemingly have proof.

So it's time to act.

It doesn't matter how you found out about the deceit. You can confront Tracey by saying you know that she has misled about x absence because she was seen at y despite claiming z. Ask her to explain.

If you don't act now, you'll regret it.

You dont sound like a capable manager OP.

If you were, why would you ignore the evidence you have to finally get rid of a fucking lying employee?

You should be all over this doing whatever is possible by your company guidelines and use this evidence to get rid.

It all depends on the strength of your evidence.

did your mate say “Tracy pulled a sickie and we went scuba diving” or something more concrete?

I'm a lawyer. I once had a case where the client was dismissing an employee they'd hired on full time terms but mainly wfh. There were many issues with his performance. One day a manager from the client attended a conference where he got chatting with someone doing the same sort of role at another company, and they somehow established that they BOTH employed this same individual. He'd taken 2 jobs, both full time but mainly wfh.

If people take the piss then they can expect to be fired. It doesn't matter how you found out.

It also depends on whether whatever it is she was doing could be seen as recuperation. Does she have a doctor’s note or self certifying?

GP note is void if the reason is a lie.

For example, the employee is seen at a physical activity/hobby, but has GP note for muscular issues etc, then thats very obviously a lie.

Straight up sackable / gross misconduct.

What was sickness reason?

What was activity? And what time was activity?

For example phoned in sick with a sore back then seen at yoga or pilates - could argue to help back.

Phoned in sick with the bug,seen at wine tasting club - not ideal.

The trouble is, most physical/mobility health issues would advise that you exercise as part of rehabilitation. I’m not saying that’s definitely the case for this scenario, but it’s not a black and white ‘you must be bed bound to be off work sick’

I'm in HR and a we have a very similar case going on too!! People wonder why home working has such a bad reputation but this is why!

That was almost a haiku!

You have to be very careful with this Op.
As others have pointed out, if the employer is off ‘sick’ they can claim ( depending on the type of activity ) that they were exercising to aid their recuperation.
In fact, in some cases an employer who is absent because of illness is able to go on holiday. As another poster pointed out, one does not need to be bed bound in order to be deemed ‘sick’

you have evidence. How you came about it is entirely irrelevant, what counts is that you have evidence.
Unfortunately every workplace has one of these pisstakers.

You pass it up the chain (senior managers / HR) and ler them deal with it. It'll then cease to be your responsibility whatever happens.

Sorry, a rushed reply I'm getting kids ready to get to my Mums.

And again, sorry for being vague, but the activity wasn't the issue. It was more the conversation employee had with my friend via WhatsApp. When friend showed me the picture on her phone, Tracy had sent it to her. Tracy has admitted to lying about something to get time off work in messages to my friend.

Tracy may well have been at the activity while off sick, but it is something that could be argued is helping with her ailment. And to be honest, if they were really sick I would encourage them to do it to see if it helped.

@HelplessSoul I've thought the same over the years too. But I'm fairly low down on the managerial chain. The last time we had issues, I gave them evidence going back 2 years of her poor performance etc but they took so long to do anything, didn't follow policy/procedure and in my eyes gave her a more lenient punishment because they were worried she would complain/appeal if they dismissed her. I doubt anyone will be surprised that this is in the public sector.

Bollocks to that.

No illness is so bad that you can’t work but is good reason for a trip to Crete. With the possible exception of recovery from cancer treatment.

The fact that she is always off then gets her act together at the performance management stage shows that she knows how to play the system.

You’re the line manager? Yes of course you do something.

Without the messages you don’t have proof
its crap when someone knows how to play the system though

Speak to HR for advice in the first instance, but now you’ve been made aware you can’t sit on it, it’s fraud as you’ve pointed out and very serious.