Quick charity procedure question/opinion wanted please

[jandalsinsummer]

Quick charity question/opinion please? I run a small charity with some friends, think of it as us fundraising through concerts then we offer small grants in our local area for music lessons. This is not the actual purpose of the charity but explains things well so you can understand my question. The grants are supposed to be for local music lessons for those who can suddenly no longer afford them (job loss, divorce etc) we specifically state that we do not fund overseas music lessons.
A couple of us receive applications, so only we know the names, we then collate and try and anonymise them and the others get together as a group and decide who is getting a grant.
This year we received several applications from people who we know are taking overseas music lessons but they didn’t mention it in their application and asked us for local lesson fees. Can we use our knowledge of their overseas lessons to disqualify their application? We are 100% sure they are taking overseas music lessons, they told us they were, as well as it being all over their social media.

It is tricky, obviously someone can benefit from support for their music lessons and still go on holiday but as a group we think differently about how we handle this.

thanks

bateswells.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Grant-funding-campaigns-guide-June-2019.pdf

Also you can contact NCVO for help www.ncvo.org.uk/about-us/our-services/support-small-charities-voluntary-organisations/small-charity-helpdesk/

Thanks this round has all been done and dusted for a while, I’m putting something together to suggest some changes and this ‘issue’ has been at the back of my mind since. We did not expect these applications and went backwards and forwards over how we should handle it.

Right. But in the application itself they can also clarify this. For example, “Why are you applying for this grant? In your answer please address your financial need as well as x, y, z.”

I occasionally help people apply for grants for individuals. The questions can be very forthright, and have to be sometimes in order to prevent misuse of funds. Presumably if funds are paid to teachers you can specify the grant purpose there too.

Using your personal knowledge or not - preferably not, but I would ask myself whether the application is worded tightly enough that only those eligible (ie no overseas study) apply. Another heavy handed approach is wording to the effect that any student undertaking any overseas study is ineligible for this grant unless that overseas study is entirely funded by a charitable grant or other third party.

What a silly comment. I work in the charity sector and support new charities getting set up and more established charities with their governance and procedures. It's a massive learning curve at the start but even very established charities are constantly having to reassess their criteria, values, impact and how to deal with issues such as this.

This is the reason I don't give to charities. So many are run by people who, however well intentioned, don't have the gravitas or skills to manage them correctly. You have to be a bit of a tartar to run a charity, you can't just take people at their word, otherwise you'll be exploited.

You need to require teachers to provide additional evidence that they are using the money for local lessons.

I think I'm missing something.

If you state no overseas lessons, and some applicants are having overseas lessons, they go in the no pile.

Surely? I don't understand why this is complicated.

OP in your situation I would be very honest with the applicants and state that you have been made aware that the lessons are for abroad and therefore they are ineligible for the grants. If they dispute it is there a way that you can get them to only be paid via an invoice from a UK teacher?

To be clear no one directly gives us anything we don’t shake a tin, we don’t go to schools or anything like that. People choose to come to our concerts, completely of their own free will. So many charities do really good work and many keep their overheads as low as possible, please don’t let someone trying to get good strong procedures for a small music lesson charity in another country put you off supporting where you see a genuine need (and you can afford to of course)

Is there something like the Charity Commission in the country you are based in. Ask them for guidance

Sorry catching up, we state we will not fund overseas lessons, they all have local lessons as well so would say we are using your money to pay for our local lessons we pay the local teacher directly so the money goes to local lessons but we know that this year some are going overseas for some lessons.

Thank you for your support earlier, the money is paid to the local teacher, I know the names so I know who is taking a trip overseas for lessons, the committee don’t know the names. My question is whether it is OK to share my personal knowledge when I add their application?

Fair enough on you trying to put strong procedures in place - I wish all charities would. I would also suggest that you have a word with the trustees in your group who just want to do 'fun' stuff.

If people can afford to go abroad for more expensive music lessons, they don't strike me as being in genuine need.

Yes I was hoping there would be a straightforward answer or you would all see something I had missed. I will have to see how to take it up locally I think

Thanks for these I will look at them shortly.

Thanks I appreciate your input, I will read through the links on here but have to go now. I will check back later though.

Stop pissing on her chips.

they are learning & doing their best, they are fundraising & trying to support people to get music lessons.

they're not raising millions to support cancer research.

cant you just help or move on?

@jandalsinsummer are these people paying for any music lessons locally? Or purely all overseas?

if is ALL overseas, I'd disqualify them & having a word about not completing the application fully (ie lying to fraudulently claim a grant they're not entitled to ).

well done for doing what you're doing?

im assuming the lessons not being overseas is to support local music teachers?!

Surely one criteria is need?

So they need to be on a low income to qualify?

Not -high income but low disposable income due to paying fit other expensive things? (Like overseas music lessons)

If you know they are lying surely that's relevant to any decision made? Why would it not be? It's fraud isn't it in the applicants part.

Cross posted with some of your later posts. It's all quite nuanced isn't it.

Thank you appreciate the support we’re trying.

yes they all have local lessons we pay their local teacher and yes by doing that we support the local teachers of course as the person after says if you go overseas for lessons you don’t ‘need’ our support.

So if you pay the local teacher they are then miss using the funding by allowing a student to use it for over seas lessons so you need to stop that. So for example a funder may fund a group to deliver bread to those in need. The group cannot therefore deliver steak instead as it goes against the grant agreement. It could however deliver steak if they went back to the funder and showed need for steak rather than bread and the funder agreed.

I assume people are actually taking 2 lots of lessons -local and overseas.

So don't actually "need" lessons as they already pay for expensive overseas ones. Do could afford to just pay a local person instead if they wanted.

Is checking applicants' Social Media not counted as part of due diligence for their eligibility?

I would say that your criteria for hardship or inability to continue with local lessons needs to be more precise. Either that, or people are lying. Can you use personal knowledge? I think you could refer their application back for further clarification.

If they are taking local lessons and the funding is paid direct why is the overseas tuition an issue? If it were only overseas tuition then they do not meet the criteria for funding.

So it's not that they're having overseas lessons that's the problem.

It's that some grantees evidently aren't in the hardship category. And via local knowledge, you are aware they are cheating the system.

The reference to overseas lessons is a red herring.

If I were you, I'd only be taking future grant applications via a referral from a teacher or school you know and trust. The teacher should be advocating that the student doesn't have funds to take lessons without your help. It should be made clear to the teacher that if it's found that you've been mislead and that students aren't in fact in financial hardship, then you won't be offering any future grants to his/her students.

Do you have a website? It's perfectly reasonable to state on there that your mission is to support students who would otherwise not be able to pursue music lessons. As you are an over-subscribed charity, you have to make informed decisions about who to allocate funds to. The charity will carry out due diligence, which may include speaking with teachers, viewing social media etc. The charity is certain that prospective grantees will support this approach to ensure fairness in fund distribution.