Is down cruel?

[MrBirling]

My daughter wants a down jacket. I never use down because I'm allergic to it. I'm partly against the jacket because of the price is over £100. I know that's not a huge amount for a coat but she's not done growing so she'll no doubt need a new one next year. I am a meat eater and wear leather shoes so I'm not against using animal products. But is down a waste product of the meat industry or do they pull feathers out of live birds?

Yes it is.

https://www.peta.org.uk/issues/animals-not-wear/down/It

I wouldn't read into anything Peta say as they are known liars.

But a quick google says this -

Some brands have put policies in place to ensure their down is ethically sourced, but there are still concerns that cruelty is occurring. You can look for products that are labeled with the RDS or GTDS certification, which are overseen by NSF International. However, even with these certifications, there is no guarantee that the down was not obtained from live-plucked or force-fed birds.

So looks like it isn't cruelty free but I'm sure there are some businesses that source "ethical" down.

Thanks both. @TouchOfSilverShampoo I always find peta a bit unbalanced - not calling your pet a pet because its derogatory is just ridiculous in my opinion.

I've not heard of ethical down. Something to consider.

to eat meat and wear leather but have a problem with your daughter wearing a down jacket seems odd

but it. My daughter loves it and i love that it’s so warm

Well it depends whether the bird was dead when it was plucked or whether it was cruelly plucked live (I imagine repeatedly after the feather grew back).

I think it's the idea of plucking down from live birds that I dislike. Surely that must be really painful and take some time. I then think the birds must feel really cold until it all grows back. Then they'll be plucked again.

With meat and leather the animals are just stunned and then killed. It's a quick process.

At that price it's most likely Chinese down which is where the biggest cruelty issues (live plucking) are.

‘Stunned then killed’ makes the meat industry sound so efficient and clinical. It’s not. Industrial scale meat and dairy industry is cruel and atrocious. I know someone who worked briefly in an abattoir. It scarred him for life.

There are more than adequate alternatives to down

Some brands are cruelty free from dead birds or recycled down.

If she’s still growing seems a lot of money for a coat.

The animals are sentient beings. They’re not happily munching straw one minute, then unconscious and dead the next. They feel fear being transported and they hear the fear and screams of their fellow animals. By all means, eat meat, but don’t downplay the horror of it all.

As for down, I wouldn’t trust any sources. Having seen a video of the live-plucking of a bird, I was almost physically sick. It’s horrendous.

You need to read a little more about the meat industry and the absolute horrors it entails - there is no humane way to slaughter animals on an industrial scale, no "quick process".

Down is cruel, there's no such thing as cruelty free down (plucking feathers from dead birds has still involved the slaughter, probably following a miserable and uncomfortable life, of a sentient animal).

Would your daughter consider buying from Vinted or eBay? Then you can afford ethically sourced and still have money left over from your £100 budget.

Repeated live plucking is how it's done.
It painful and traumatising and if wounds are creating (skin tear) it is unlikely they are treated given the birds exist to be the cheapest economic units possible.

Tbh I think it must be really ghastly for the people plucking (it's not machines). How could you do that all day long and not lose part of your soul from inflicting distress and pain constantly.

I worked in fashion for 16 years and would be very wary of Down if you are concerned with the cruelty aspect.

The factory will be buying Down feathers from a supplier at the cheapest possible price, so unless the brand is directly involved in the chain of supply and paying a premium for ethical feathers, it’s very hard for anyone to really know what’s going on.
You, as the customer, won’t really know for sure. The brand might not even really know.

Icelandic eiderdown is good - nit plucked but collected from nests. icelandicdown.com/blog/2019/05/10/what-is-eiderdown/

Yes it is cruel - no two ways about it.

Nice. That's what it would all be in our imagination.
15,000+ for a duvet...
Can see why. Win win for bird and man. Magic.

As ever, Sadly, once production is elevated to industrial scale and doesn't involve farmers wandering through fields of ducks who regard them as friendly, the story changes.
There is no such thing as cheap animal products... Ultimately a price is paid. Just not the end consumer.

So those coats at circa 150 are likely not gathered lovingly from nests. 😔