When politicians won't answer the question

[Elektra1]

Just heard Treasury Minister James Murray on the Today programme talking about the changes to the government's borrowing rules, and changes to taxes in the impending budget. He was asked 5 times whether landlords work for a living (I assume due to changes to CGT and SDLT) and simply repeated the same response ("we are talking about how people make their money").

Landlords clearly make at least some of their money by buying and selling properties, and renting them out. Nothing wrong with that, it's a job. So why not just answer the question? Do they seriously think that the audience is taken in by repetition of the same non-answer? It just makes me think they must be shit at their job (being a politician).

None of your business @EasternStandard
Im a bit sick of your ‘only rich entrepreneurs are entitled to an opinion’ stance on these things.

Really? That's nice. Who said all small business owners were 'rich entrepreneurs' anyway?

You're missing the taxes paid and the risk element. And it seems, that small business owners can absolutely be a range of incomes, especially when starting out.

@EasternStandard
The business pays corporation tax on profits it makes.
Say the director is the owner then -
The director can choose to take a salary where he is taxed through PAYE.
The director can choose to take dividends if there is enough money left over.
These are the tax rates on dividends after small annual allowances:

Tax bandTax rate on dividends over the allowance
Basic rate 8.75%
Higher rate 33.75%
Additional rate 39.35%
Perhaps the chancellor will increase these rates to the level of income tax.

If somebody is working for a company they own and takes only dividends they are not paying the same amount of tax as someone who takes only a salary.

The company paying corporation tax is a whole different entity than the shareholders who own it. There are lots of ways to mitigate corporation tax bills eg losses brought forward, losses carried back, capital allowances for fixed assets etc. and lots of expenses that come off profits before they are taxed.

Sole traders pay income tax on profits from their business.

I don't know whether any other political parties have been using the term 'working people'. I have heard Labour politicians say it. I think they want it to sound as if they care about working-class workers without actually using the words 'working-class'.

I don't know why it's so hard for Labour politicians to answer the question on it. I'm not in the know about any political party's inner workings!

What is my definition of a working person? It's a person who is an employee of someone else/an organisation, who works some hours a week and is paid for the work. A working person is any self-employed person who works some hours a week and takes a wage/salary from the work. I apologise if I've forgotten someone in those two sentences, and later wish I'd added them in.

I agree whole-heartedly with your second paragraph. Some years ago a friend and I agreed that we'd paid more than 20% income tax in our life-times and we wouldn't mind a penny or two on Income Tax if it went to the NHS.

I don't know what a decision tool is. I wasn't saying, or implying, that the term 'working people' had been used as anything in particular, only that it's been thrown around for quite some time.

Right, your first paragraph, second sentence - if any party has absolutely made up it's mind to do anything it could say so if it wanted to, but the honesty might bring repercussions they might not want at a particular time.

@cardibach You say all incomes should be taxed at the same rate. Do you agree then that a flat rate tax is a good thing, as it is proven a low flat rate tax leads to higher growth.

I expect your answer will be you sort of agree but it should be at a high rate.

As to small businesses, company directors etc - it is these SME who create jobs - not everyone can work in the public sector so if anything the tax regime for SME should be very advantageous to encourage more start ups.

No, a flat rate tax is regressive. What I said (maybe not well expressed) was that money should be taxed the same - so the same percentages as regards different incomes whether it’s salary or passive income.

A flat rate tax is what this country needs in order to ensure growth, and by keeping the rate low and with a decent threshold it encourages people into jobs and off of benefits. They can earn £x without paying tax and then only a small rate of tax after that. Less costs on benefits, low unemployment and because people keep more of their own money the country thrives.

A flat rate tax also stops people wanting to avoid or evade tax as the amount payable is reasonable. Tax take increases which equals more money for services.

Completely wrong. If it was so brilliant, someone somewhere would be doing it. It just doesn’t work. How about stopping tax avoidance and evasion by tightening up laws and persu8ng law breakers? How can someone on the NMW of around £25k pay the same as someone on £100k (which MN insists isn’t a lot)? There’s no way that brings in enough money to run things. A welfare state relies on those with more paying more. That’s how it works.

I didn’t realise how high it was for SMEs

SMEs and the economy

SMEs account for 99.9% of the business population (5.6 million businesses). SMEs account for three-fifths of the employment and around half of turnover in the UK private sector.

@upinaballoon I appreciate your reply with definitions but what seems to be missing from Labour is the absolute reliance on SME employers who absolutely are ‘working people’ and are vital in driving growth, looking at the figures

In your opinion. Why is the answer always to impose more and more regulations. If people were allowed to keep more of their money and pay a very fair amount of tax it encourages less avoidance, especially those on higher salaries. The more disposable income people have the more they spend it creating a strong economy.

People are far more mobile now - regulation and high tax rates, especially for the higher salaried will eventually drive them away from the UK. Tax take reduces, so what will happen? Less growth and the higher taxes will be implemented upon those who earn less.

Now we have left the EU, we should have very low corporation tax rates to encourage business to set up here. More businesses means more jobs and higher corporation tax take. Yet what have we done, raised corporation tax and continue to subscribe to Biden's view of a standardise corporation tax rate.

For many, including the current government, the answer is always higher tax, more regulation and penalise the rich. What is wrong with allowing those on a lower salary or benefits to earn £20k without paying tax if working? If they earn £5k more they will only pay 15% tax on £5k. What is wrong with someone earning £100k paying 15% tax on £80k? I am sure people would be happy to pay it as it is afair amount.

We don’t know what the current government will do. We know the last one gave us the highest taxes since the war.
But taxes are necessary and serve social good. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn’t paying any attention to world economics, and isn’t someone who can be argued with. You can’t reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into. I’m going to leave it there and not respond further.

Leaving the EU was the biggest act of self harm we could have done to ourselves, on so many levels.

Don't respond further means you lose as you will not debate anymore - people have differing opinions, that is what is good for society. Saying "anyone who thinks otherwise is not paying attention" is playing the person not the ball.

All I know and thankfully many others do to, is with this government an awful lot of people are going to be affected by some pretty big tax rises and they will not all be "rich". The end result many will be poorer and there is unlikely to be economic growth - not good for the UK.

All of you complaining about tax hikes and the like, what would you do?

You must know more money is needed, how would you go about raising it?

I did say 'self-employed' people in my definition, by which I include small businesses which employ a few people.

If R Reeves clobbers little businesses next week I sit back and watch 'events, dear boy' and wonder if she'll make me pay 85% tax on the interest from my fixed rate/fixed term BS account, on the grounds that I didn't work for it.

There's a road we take and a thousand roads we don't take. We can batter ourselves all our lives that we should have done something. At the level of our personal lives we have to do the best with it.
It's the same in the life of the nation. There was a democratic vote. The majority of voters said 'Leave'.
When I was young we weren't in a Common Market. I got up in a morning and ate enough and kept warm enough to carry on living to the next day. Seventy years later I'm doing the same.
Maybe if we hadn't voted 'out' I'd have a bigger car now and everyone in this country would have more money than they have but we don't really know.
If we hadn't Brexitted we'd have been in the EU for Covid and Ukraine and I don't know what that would have done to us.
9.18 and not a child in the house washed. Gotta shog.

Fair enough, usually I split it out as set up and tax is different but will include ;

Agree on the ‘events, dear boy’ good phrase

I'd tax the internet! If we all (individuals and companies) had to pay even 0.01p per interaction with cyberspace then either (a) the Govt would raise a fortune or (b) we'd all be off the internet and doing something more useful with our lives.

'Events, dear boy', is a phrase used by a politician long ago. It could have been Anthony Eden or a Harold, or centuries before them. I will have to look it up for my own satisfaction.

Whatever happens in the news, in the world, it all rolls onward and it never goes back to some sort of semi-sanity that we think we remember. One event in 20 minutes time might knock today's headlines into obscurity.

Funnily enough I’m watching an excellent series The Hour based around Eden’s Suez crisis. Maybe why I liked the wording so much, I highly recommend