Creeping secularism ....

[SerendipityJane]

Who'd have thunk ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13963005/Tory-ex-minister-Gavin-Williamson-launches-bid-boot-bishops-House-Lords-says-ridiculous-Iran-country-Britain-reserve-space-clergy-parliament.html

Thats completely different. We have no choice currently about bishops in the HoL but you dont have to send your choice to a faith school. The option should still be there for those of us that want too though.

In my area there's a 'choice' of good and less good CofE and RC schools, unless you can pay for private. And why on earth 'should' the state supply faith schools for some religions? I've not noticed them opening Muslim and Hindu faith schools and closing Christian ones in our town to reflect current demographics.

Re the bishops - it's the automatic bloc that's the problem. For as long as we have a HoL as the second chamber, there's no reason that representatives of the CofE shouldn't be included, on the same basis as those representing other religious groups and non religious worldviews.

This is my view.

As much as I completely disagree with the entire notion of an unelected house and would do away with it in an instant, I also believe that Christian people have as much right to representation as anyone else. Where I draw the line, is that the Lord Spiritual are there for no reason other than the fact that they represent a religion, when at the same time there are no "Lords Agnostic", "Lords Secular", "Lords Atheist", "Lords Humanist", or "Lords Antitheist".

If people deserve representation purely because of their belief, then that holds across the board for people with no belief, sceptics, the undecided, and people who believe religion is a net negative.

The thing with bishops is that they care more about people than they do about politics. So they will vote according to what they genuinely believe is morally right for everyone in society.

I think it helps to have them in the Lords. They are the only impartial people in the Houses of Parliament who can put a brake on ridiculousness if necessary.

The thing with bishops is that they care more about people than they do about politics. So they will vote according to what they genuinely believe is morally right for everyone in society.

Seriously?
Their 'morally right' attitudes shown in the voting records over the centuries have often been a drag on social progress. Slavery, women's rights, gay rights...
No, they don't have a god-given right to impose their 'morals' on society at large.

Look, I don’t want to bash the bishop in public, but to suggest that people of no faith or none don’t also have high moral and decent values and therefore wouldn’t stop parliament being corrupt is ludicrous. Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.

Parents make all sorts of decisions about the type of education they want their children to have (as they should) including wanting them to have having an education rooted in a particular faith. They should always have that choice.
And the education is obviously balanced, there is a national curriculum to be followed for a start, and there are plenty of students who attend my children's school that are not catholic who can opt out of things they dont want to attend e.g. collective worship.

They are not in any way "impartial" on moral issues. I'd argue that they are by far and away the people who are most likely to be the opposite, given that religious people repeatedly contend that absolutely everyone should be obliged to live by their particular religion's dogma irrespective of whether they are an adherent of that religion or not.

As PP said, they are invariably and continually a drag on progress. You just need to look at what happens any time the debate on assisted dying rears it's head. Suddenly both houses are full of people citing religion as a reason to opt out and pass the buck, despite most of them never having displayed any overt religiosity previously.

Sorry Mr suddenly religious MP, your religion might give you one particular set of morals, but I don't share your religion, and neither do the majority of people in the UK either, and I disagree with your churches view on moral matters, so I'll be damned if I'm going to accept being subject to the whims of government by Theocracy just to avoid upsetting your God that I don't even accept exists.

I don't agree. There are countless incidences of religious schools failing to present balanced, scientific education. Inadequate sex ed, leading to the local Catholic school near me being best known for teenage pregnancies. Homophobic teaching leading the children unprepared for modern life. Schools teaching creationism instead of evolution.

Part of the purpose of education is getting a balanced understanding of the world that we live in. Filtering education through the lens of faith immediately takes away that balance.

Bishops aren’t impartial. They may not follow party political views, but definitely have their own religious policies.

It's frankly ludicrous to suggest the bishops are 'impartial'. If you mean politically, (a) there's no reason to suppose they are and (b) haven't you heard of 'crossbenchers'?

And on their 'morality'... over the years several of these 'lords spriritual' have been involved in coverups and excuses for child abuse scandals. More interested in defending the 'reputation' of their institution than in safeguarding children. That may (hopefully) be changing a bit now the crimes and coverups are being exposed, and probably no longer being an all male leadership helps too.

The thing with bishops is that they care more about people than they do about politics. So they will vote according to what they genuinely believe is morally right for everyone in society.

They’ll vote according to what is best for the church rather than best for society. That’s their job.

@minipie " So they will vote according to what they genuinely believe is morally right for everyone in society."

Possibly. But it will be Christian morality. I do not want a block Christian vote legislating on, for example, women's reproductive rights and assisted dying.

I was quoting a different poster in the bit in bold - sorry, that wasn’t clear

My view is the bit underneath ie that they will vote for church interests

Sorry @minipie. I feel strongly about this and piled in without reading properly😥

Nope. Why should a school paid for by the tax payer get to discriminate as to who can attend? Religion should have no place in our schools.