6500 extra teachers....

[noblegiraffe]

This was one of Labour's main headline pledges. They were a bit vague on the details - is this 6500 more than the amount of teachers that are currently needed, or 6500 more than the Tories managed to recruit, which was well below the amount currently needed? I don't know.

Anyway, where are we at?
Teachers were awarded a 5.5% pay rise as recommended - good.
Ofsted single word judgements scrapped immediately - good.
PPA can now be taken from home - meh, maybe good for primary
Performance related pay scrapped -good

The situation:
Teacher trainee recruitment targets were massively missed again for this September so schools will continue to have unfilled vacancies next September.

The projected fall in pupil numbers due to decreasing birth rates won't be as big as expected so more primary teachers will be needed (and this will impact school funding as fewer pupils meant there was going to be potentially spare cash in the system).

Potentially more pupils in the state system from private could be balanced out by returning private teachers to state schools. That will take some time to shake out.

PGCE mentors are now expected to do 20 hours of training this year to be a mentor, and lead mentors 30 hours, regardless of how experienced they are. This is putting people off being mentors so PGCE providers are struggling to find placements for what few trainees they have.

Workload for teachers is increasing due to lack of funding, and lack of teachers, so they have less time to devote to training teachers. The lack of experienced teachers available to train them is also a problem. At the same time, the demands of training new teachers on schools has increased (e.g. the NQT year is now two years of support and reduced timetable and schools also need to provide PGCE students with 4 extra weeks of intensive training and practice).

This is an extremely urgent issue, and a key government pledge, so why all the airtime about anything to do with education is being taken up with bloody VAT is beyond me.

The impact of the lack of teachers in the system is huge. Inability to recruit teachers means kids have supply and cover teachers which affects their learning, but also their behaviour across the school as they become disaffected in those subjects. Experienced teachers are not only having to plan lessons for the supply teachers and sometimes mark for them too, they are having to pick up the pieces and fill in the gaps when they teach the classes the next year. Heads of Department are spending huge amounts of time fielding legitimate complaints about the quality of teaching. Advertising for positions that cannot be filled is expensive.

What do Labour need to do to turn this around?

I haven’t RTFT. I’m an ex teacher and have a certain amount of trauma resulting from my exit from the profession so I tend to steer clear of these threads.

However, despite the above, my DD has begun Teacher training this year. At her institution, which is historically a teaching college, they run 7 different Secondary Teaching courses. English, maths, history, geography, RE, PE and Science. Across the ENTIRE cohort, there are fewer than 30 students. In her discipline (Maths) there are 4. I was one of 300 when I started my training in 1999. Teacher recruitment and retention is the biggest problem and they could absolutely start with scrapping tuition fees. My Dd will get her final year paid because she’s in a shortage subject, but that still means loans of over £25k before she even begins.

I have three trainees this placement, or I did until Friday. One dropped out after just two weeks, because he realised that he didn't want the pressure.

And now another thread on VAT rapidly filling up...Fucksake.

You seem slightly obsessed with it

Depressed would be a better word. All the energy being put into a discussion of a tiny area of education while there's a massive binfire being ignored.

People handwringing about kids with SEN in private school when the vast majority of kids with SEN are in state education.

Like, what the fuck.

Because why would you think that the parents at indy schools would just roll over and not challenge VAT?
State school parents could do the same considering they constitute 93% of parents with kids in school.

The parents at Indie schools are welcome to challenge VAT, good luck to them, but they should stop pretending that the decision to send their children to an indie school was selfless and done with anything but their own children in mind.

Because if they did care about the state of state education they could do something about it.

they just remind me of the us4them arseholes during covid.

Who makes any decision thinking about other people's children? I would judge you harshly if you put the needs of other kids above that of your own kids. Every parent puts their child first, it is built into us to do so. Who on earth sacrifices the well being of their own child for personal ethics?
If 93% of parents cared so much about state education then they could do something about it. The sheer numbers would have more clout than the 7% using indy schools. It isn't the fault of indy parents that the 93% of state parenta haven't galvanised into a collective union to improve state schools.

As I said, they are more than welcome to fight the VAT on school fees.
As to who makes decisions for people about their children?
Do you really need a list?
We can start with
government
schools
social services
doctors

As for why don't the 93% do something?
I suspect that most don't care.
Some do care but by the time they realise just how much is wrong with the system their are the kids are almost out of the other side and into college, uni and work.

Maybe they should listen to the teachers? But that would mean going against years of government, main stream media and social media propaganda telling them that teachers are just whinging, left wing, shirkers that only work from 9 - 3 and are only in it for the holidays and pension.

And again, that's not the fault of indy parents.
So many parents on MN welcomed "sharp elbowed" indy parents into state schools to help improve them yet seemingly didn't comprehend that these same parents would fight tooth and nail to stop VAT.
I certainly support teachers but it isn't my responsibility to improve the lot of state teachers. It is my responsibility to pay school fees and support the teachers at DDs school. I pay my taxes which support state schools. Should we pay more to improve state schools? Well yes but only with overall income tax increase will that happen, tinkering around the edges with VAT doesn't do that.
All I hear is that state parents don't give a crap about indy schools and what happens but yet complain when we fight against VAT. You can't have it both ways.

It's a massive, massive amount of discourse being spent on something that affects a minority of kids, and then a tiny amount of discourse spent on something that affects a massive majority of kids.

@twistyizzy perhaps you could contribute to the discussion as to what Labour could to to help recruit more state school teachers. If you've nothing to say about that, please go back to the bloody VAT threads.

Sorry didn't realise you are the thread police and can dictate who interacts with each thread!
Labour needs to focus on retention of current teachers but that's too expensive and complex so instead they will throw incentives at potential recruits without solving the sort of issues which resulted in 44,000 teachers leaving the profession last year.
If you believe Labour will invest the money needed to improve the state sector then you are either naive or deluded.

This is my thread that I started.

So why do you think 44,000 teachers left last year (answer: workload) and what can Labour do to alleviate this that won't cost any money?

I know why they left thanks and I know Labour won't/can't do anything.
We actually need an honest conversation about the cost of educating children (same as with health + social care) and asking people whether they want an income based education tax to improve the state sector or are they happy to not pay more and receive a poorer state education system. The problem is no politician will stick their neck out to do this BUT this is not the fault of indy schools/parents. Scapegoat us all you want as being the cause of all the ills but it simply isn't true.
People get the state services they are willing to pay for.

Just because you start a thread doesn't mean you own it!

I can certainly say that if you want to discuss other things than the thread topic then feel free to start your own thread.

I think the conservative government bear a lot of responsibility for the current state of education and that's because they weren't willing to invest money in public services.

And yet they are vital to the economy.

Not disagreeing with you. State education has been underfunded for over 15 years. Or are you assuming I'm a Tory because I oppose VAT?

Based on the stats - approx 44k left last year but just over 44k joined, slightly more than joined the year before. Also some of the leavers will be natural attrition from retirement etx

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-workforce-in-england

Given the falling birth rate, it may well all shake-out overall

I am sure with the right incentives they can attract the 6500 new teachers - a focus on retention will be needed. And a working environment that encourages excellence in teaching and high standards. I am sure most teachers know what good looks like but are beaten down by the current poor state of affairs

Leveraging technological advancements to take on some of the mundane, repetitive tasks may make life easier for teachers and encourage retention

Anyone can comment on any thread.

Ironically, the amount of private school parents whining about anyone other than people agreeing with them commenting on 'their threads' don't agree.

They may have joined but how many were still in post 18 months later? Tory and Labour have failed to hit recruitment targets

Given the falling birth rate, it may well all shake-out overall

No, there are targets based on need. The targets have been missed for 11 years out of the last 12. If 44k left and 44k joined then that is nowhere near enough to fill the huge amount of vacant teacher posts.

It's particularly bad in secondary subjects like computing where schools have just stopped offering it as a subject due to inability to recruit.

It's particularly bad in secondary subjects like computing where schools have just stopped offering it as a subject due to inability to recruit.

The trainee who quit was computing. At present we are fully staffed with computing specialists. But 2/3 of them are actively job hunting out of teaching.

@noblegiraffe does that table mean that for every 100 physics posts they have only 25 applicants ? And for classics there are around 2.5 applicants per post ?
or that they only have 25% of the numbers applying they wanted ?

You seem to be unaware that school governors (I’m one), are the largest group of volunteers in the UK. There are 300k of us.

As well as writing to my MP about the situation, which received a response from the minister for education; we are proactive and get meetings with local Counsellors, another MP, the director for education in my county, financial advisors at the local authority etc.

It’s not my DCs school.

Perhaps don’t judge everyone by your own standards.