Horrendous bedtime with 5 year old

[boscobear]

DD has recently turned 5, bedtime has always been a bit of a nightmare no matter what we've done, what time we've put her to bed, routine etc but it seems to be going from bad to worse and I dread it every night.
Our routine at the moment is tv off at dinner for the night, after dinner she'll do something like colouring, Lego, reading etc until bath time then a story and bed at 7.30 ish. She wakes at 7 every morning. Everything is fine up until she gets out of the bath then everything becomes a fight, she won't get dressed, won't get dried, doesn't want her hair dried etc, she then starts running around, laughing, screaming, jumping on the bed, hitting, grabbing me or her little sister, just generally doing anything she thinks is naughty.
I usually end up putting her in her bedroom and telling her to let me know when she's dressed and I'll come read her a story before bed but lately she's just started trashing her bedroom or screaming as loud as she can as soon as I do that.
If I sit in there with her she starts lashing out at me, If DH takes over then she will scream and shout for me and I'm honestly surprised we've never had a knock on the door I've never heard a child scream so loud.
I would let her just scream it out but it is now affecting my 1yo who is being woken/kept awake by her every night which isn't fair.
She also will not be left to go to bed herself, if we try then the screaming and trashing the place starts all over again.
We've tried doing bath in the morning instead, this step doesn't seem to matter because then she just starts once she's told it's time for pjs. We've tried later bedtime incase she isn't tired enough but then she struggles in the morning to get up for school and then it has a knock on effect for bedtime that night because she's exhausted. I thought maybe she's just not getting enough 1-1 time with us so we tried having 30-40 mins a night with one of us doing whatever she wanted while the other does DD1's bedtime but as soon as we get upstairs after it she starts.
I am drained and at a complete loss as to where to go from here, does anyone have any advice? Thankyou

This was my DS a year ago. He was actually more extreme because he would do really dangerous things like trying to push over his bookshelf. We screwed the furniture to the wall but he'd dangle on it with all his weight, it was horrendous. And he'd attack us. It was very confusing because he was actually very well behaved at every other time.

Three things helped- loads and loads of quality time together during the day, getting ready for bed quite early with a break between getting ready and actual bedtime, and not giving the bad behaviour any attention. I know some might disagree with totally ignoring the bad behaviour and say that we should have talked about feelings/supported him through it, but that didn't work with him (he HATED me doing things like naming his feelings etc) and he would instantly ramp it up.

Firstly, I recommend getting washed/teeth brushed/into pyjamas BEFORE a calm pre-bed activity like colouring or Lego to take the friction out of the getting ready bit. If you explain that after getting ready for bed you will do xyz together, she's probably less likely to be resistant.

In my DS's case, the behaviour was essentially down to FOMO (a while after it got sorted out, we were chatting about how bedtime was so much better and he said it was because he would far rather be doing things downstairs with me and knowing that daddy got to stay up and spend more time with me made him cross). From his point of view, the bad behaviour was actually very effective because it kept me upstairs for ages dealing with it. But that may not be the case with your DD.

What worked for this aspect of the problem was lots and lots of time after school doing things together. While we had plenty of quality time together anyway, I really made a point of making sure we had 1:1 time crafting, gardening etc every day.

When the behaviour started, I did my absolute best not to comment on it and would just go and stand outside his room with the door shut. I'd say something like 'I'm going to stay outside until you've calmed down because I need to keep myself safe' (if he was hitting/chucking stuff about) or 'the screaming is hurting my ears, I'll come back when you're ready to use a calm voice' etc etc. It very quickly stopped when the bad behaviour achieved the opposite of his goal (as in, I stopped being his audience). I can see that the screaming is upsetting for her sibling but you may need to ride it out a bit.

Consequences like cancelling treats etc never worked for us- it's too long after the event and the connection between bad bedtime and treat is too abstract.

This is what worked for my DS, but different children need different approaches. But I really hope you find a solution soon OP, I know how exhausting it is 😩

Ah yes, the Yoto is a great shout! You can record your own stories on cards. I recorded myself reading loads of stories and got his grandparents/much-loved aunties to record some for him too. For my DS, it helped with the sense of missing out on time with me because it helped him feel connected. And he was absolutely tickled to have other family members read stories for him too.

DD was also like this at that age, not quite as extreme but lots of resistance before bed. I was expecting her to be exhausted once she’d started school, but she just doesn’t need as much sleep as others.

Could you give her a period before bed to herself? Perhaps let her colour or something else relaxing?

I'd try getting ready for bed much earlier, maybe before dinner.

Then doing the special 1:1 time upstairs in yours or her bedroom while the other does baby bedtime. Play some calming music while you're playing with lego or reading stories and just aim for the transition to be gentler.

I'd also try rewards the next day for going to bed nicely.

We had similar (maybe not on that scale but milder) with DD4. The routine was always bath 7:30, story, bed 8. Over time it became murders trying to get her in the bath (I think in her head bath=bed so she would so everything to avoid), then she wouldn't want to get out the bath, then the moment she was out she would sprint up and down the house naked, refused to get dressed, all shits and giggles until it inevitably ended in tears. Since having DS and having to slot him in to the bedtime routine for the last 2m, bath time is now moved to 7, they go in together and she 'helps' then she has 20-30 mins to watch iPad (in bed or downstairs, her choice) and after that 8pm she puts iPad on charge and she too goes to 'charge her own batteries'. I think one of PPs suggested giving your DC some time after so they have nothing to kick off about.

So for months now, she is running a circus every night monopolising everyone's attention, screaming and acting out.
She is five years old and attends school.
Have you ever had a chat with her the following morning?

I would just wake her up 30 min earlier one morning and say that you need to chat about the previous night. If you have a footage of her acting out even better. (put a phone on video in her bedroom on a shelf).
Be frank, tell her this has to stop. She is better than this and that she has a choice, she can spend time having a lovely 1:1 with me or scream alone, because from now, if she does this circus, I might as well do the washing up.
She is a big girl, is learning how to read, and she knows better.

Then take out an A4 sheet and write down the evening routine. Step by step with little squares, simple words, such as Bath, Pj, story, kiss, bed. Ask her if she wants to add something. Does she agree to this? Is she going to be silly tonight? Then suggest that as a thank you for realising there is another way, you can go together to the cinema/mini golf/ whatever to celebrate.

Also agree with pp putting pjs on earlier then coming back down helped us remove one point of friction.
The other thing that helped ours was some really active & contact games with us, so rolling in a blanket and whizzing them out, tossing them on to the sofa (gently!).
We play the pie game (you make them into a pie, or a sandwich with sofa cushions, sprinkle the pepper on -little tickle, chop up the tomatoes-side of your flat hand chopping up & down their body, rolling out the pastry etc)

It seems to give a controlled release for that sudden burst of energy just before bed. I since discovered there’s some kind of theory attached to it. It’s fun, no pressure & sometimes surprises them as well.

and the only other thing is present it back to her as a problem you need to solve together & can she come up with anything. Don’t discount anything she says straight off, even if it’s “I want to stay up all night!” Just explore why that might not be a good idea, and perhaps you could try it when she’s older.