Listed building bathroom dilemma

[woebetide8]

Currently buying a Grade II listed property with a downstairs bathroom. We would like to turn the upstairs smaller bedroom (it is a four bedroom house) into a bathroom but it's at the front of the listed house so I think no chance of persuading them that a soil pipe would look lovely... Anyone got experience of re-routing soil pipes – we have one already downstairs at the back of the house – or any other suggestions...

Macerator so small bore pipes? Although I'm not sure how much I'd trust it...
Any space/cupboards to run a soil pipe internally? Although that would probably mean quite a long run also not ideal. Definitely ask a plumber for ideas and talk to the conservation officer who deals with LBC.

If all else fails, is there an option to do anything the other side of the house to tap in to the existing soil pipe? Not an easy one, I'm afraid. Is the house flat fronted? If there are any breaks in the frontage you might be able to tuck a soil pipe in to the inside angle so it's not on full view. It's worth getting as much advice as possible but be aware that you may be told no in the end. You'll need proper drawings for LBC so whoever is doing those (architect?) may have ideas too.

Had a macerator years back in a rental, it was not very reliable! I've never lived in a house with just a downstairs bathroom before... I guess it's not the end of the world, but would feel odd...?

If you're buying a listed property you really need to be happy to live in it as is, as there's no guarantee you'll get consent for any changes.

Agree with @Scampuss . The whole point of listing a building is to maintain it's integrity.

We live in a listed building and have a soil pipe at the front, it is to the side though , we didn’t put it in, but someone did.

id message the heritage officer or planners and ask for advise, in my experience they do allow cast iron ones.

Well yes but the councils also want to make these houses suitable for living in in modern society, otherwise the government can’t afford to maintain them.

so the addition of pipes. Extensions are all normally allowed, it just needs to be in keeping and in line with the advice from the planners. She’s not talking knocking it down, just putting a loo in.

Can you internally restructure the bedrooms at all? So that what I presume is the smallest room at the front is reconfigured to be at the back? Then the soil pipe can connect with the downstairs set up. I think!

Just a thought.

The government doesn't have anything to do with funding the maintaining of listed buildings (unless they own them themselves!).

A downstairs bathroom is perfectly acceptable in "modern society".

Extensions definitely won't be "all normally allowed"!

Internal restructuring could be as problematic as an external pipe. It would depend on what needed removing etc to create new rooms.

It will depend on why the property is listed etc, but in itself new external piping could be acceptable subject to its location, appearance etc. Try and speak to the Conservation Officer at the Council to see if they can give you any clues.

Good grief.

the government, and thus the tax payer would have to fund if no one lived in listed buildings, and yes, many extensions are allowed. Many many listed buildings are extended. But lots of hoops to be jumped through.

and a downstairs bathroom maybe perfectly acceptable to you. But not for many others.

If the joists run from front to back you may be able to run a soil pipe back to the access at the back. If they run across the house you'd have to cut through every joist to go out which is not practical and weakens the integrity.
But the pipe has to slope to work properly so that might create issues if there is not enough space under the floorboards. eg: you might have to box in a section on the ceiling downstairs as it runs downwards. You can't run it flat and then drop out, it will just block constantly. A decent installer would be able to tell you if it's technically feasible but then consent is another matter.

They wouldn’t fund them, they would let them fall down.

But yes, ime there is a degree of pragmatism from planners and heritage officers about the fact that the long term preservation of the building depends on it meeting needs.

I would definitely recommend you contact them. Sometimes it can be quite unpredictable about what they will and won’t allow.

We put a new shower room at the front of an edwardian house 20 years ago and ran the soil pipe under the floor of the adjacent bedroom then down the corner of the room underneath (hidden or boxed in) and under the floor again until it could be connected to the drains at the side of the house.

the government, and thus the tax payer would have to fund if no one lived in listed buildings

No, they wouldn't, and they don't. It's why so much of our heritage is at risk:

historicengland.org.uk/advice/heritage-at-risk/

Maybe a cast iron pipe rather than plastic would be a simple solution.and permissable if the materials would be in keeping with the period? I'd try and avoid a macerator if you possibly can although they might be better now than the one where I used to live!

Agree. In my experience too planners are now more pragmatic as listed buildings need to be lived in and loved. However it is hugely unpredictable and down to the conservation officer and can be very individualistic.

@woebetide8 Similar situation here, we did already have an upstairs bathroom though so a soilpipe at the back of the house in situ. We applied to install an ensuite at the front of the house.

We put a false floor in the new en-suite with the pipe underneath it and then routed it to the exisiting soil pipe. We had to show access points and how we would deal with problems due to the long run of pipes. The angle for the pipe through the house was also important to ensure everything flowed!

The result, other than an en-suite in an old connecting dressing room, you would not know there is any new pipework in the house to the existing stack.

I have lived in three Grade II listed buildings, and renovated them all with "integrity"; but my experience of living in different parts of the country is that it's often down to the heritage officer on your application... some respond well to modern living requests, like, "bathroom upstairs" and some don't. I have never lived in a building with a downstairs bathroom before so the point of this thread is to find out if anyone else has had a similar experience.

That sounds very clever! Were you Grade II listed?

I agree, I wish there were more set-in-stone guidelines because each heritage officer seems to have a different opinion....

That is a great idea. There is already cast iron drainage pipes at the front of the house...

I lived in a National Trust cottage for a while, listed and historic, left to ruin baby the NT, they could not have cared less about it...

To contact them now you need an architect on board; it's all changed so much, gone are the day of planning clinics and pre-meetings; they don't even come out for pre-planning meetings any more. It's all online and you have to pay hundreds of pounds for that even...

We are not knocking any walls down internally. The shower room would go in the smallest box room bedroom.

I would have an informal chat with the listing officer. Then decide based on that. Also consider whether this is a deal breaker for you or whether there are other options you’d consider.