Ex Wants Me To Change Childcare Routine

[Jacp88]

So, I know this can be a difficult topic. I'm sure many of you would have had your own experiences of this previously, but I just want some opinions.
Myself and my partner split 4 and a half years ago. Two years ago, she asked for me to coparent 50/50, something I had said I wanted previously. Throughout our relationship, and to the current day, I work a 4 on 4 off schedule. When she came to me regarding the 50/50, I changed by alternating days and nights to permanent nights. This allowed me to be completely 50/50.
The kids have lived this way for two years (Aged 9 and 6) and are very happy.
She's recently had a change in her life. She now wants it to be one week on, one week off. She knows that I can't do this due to my working pattern. She has used everything she can in our initial what turned out to be an argument, from her losing weight and being unhealthy because of my shifts, me being selfish and it making her a bad Mum because it doesn't fit in with her lifestyle etc.
She is a self employed groomer, and my argument has been consistent, and that is that she controls when she works, and I don't. I also understand that it isn't as cut and dry as that, but she certainly has more flexibility than I do.
I know full well that she plans on selling the house and moving into a converted camper van (Yes with the kids) Again that's her choice, yet she's trying to enforce something here that the children don't want. Forget my views, the children don't want to change their routine, and they've made it clear that they don't want to live in a camper.
What this boils down to is that she sees that she's trapped because of my shift pattern. She wants to start a new life but currently she can't, because of what we'd previously agreed. She is insistent that I change my job to accommodate a week on week off pattern. The irony of it all is, is that she's then 'dictating' my life, something that I'm repeatedly accused of due to my current job.
I genuinely haven't slept in 4 days now with worry. Again, you may all tell me I'm completely wrong and being unreasonable, but I'll take it if so

The point at which you started caring for them 50/50 may not have been you led, but the hours you take responsibility for them are you led, and it’s not an easy system you’re laying over everyone. 4 days on 4 days off is unlikely to fit well with anybody else's schedule who doesn’t have a lot of flexibility, and it’s likely to get harder as the kids get older until they get to the point they don’t need childcare and/or taking places. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect that there wouldn’t be pressure to change at some point.

Nevertheless, that doesn’t mean your ex is being reasonable either. I’m not having a go at you. Fitting around kids can be hard even when you’re in a happy relationship with the other parent. Just pointing out that it’s not a one sided situation.

I can see both points of view.

She is being unfair saying she doesn’t have any time to herself/ always at work etc, as so are you, you are at work every night the DC are not with you.

I think planning around 4 days on/ 4 days off is probably difficult though. There are no set days where the DC are with either of you. I think this could get harder for the DC when they get older and are trying to plan things (depending on how far apart you live).

Fair play to you, sounds exhausting but you've adapted to make it work, the children have been happy doing this for 2 years already. Her resentment that you aren't juggling childcare and work on the same days is a little wild, you don't get time to yourself much as you're working and then straight into seeing the children (mainly sleeping between nights I presume); would she really fancy that? Doubt it. If it was being led by the children then that's one thing, but just because she's now single is savage but sadly not sure what you can do! You would probably have an okay chance in court formalising it as its been working for several years, children are at an age where they have input and you say they're happy.

She's being selfish, especially with the camper van idea, I believe you're doing an incredible job with the current plan, stick to it, only saying this because her job is more flexible than yours, she wants the change so she should accommodate around it without disrupting the current arrangements. She's obviously hurt over her break up and is projecting her frustrations on you. She needs to rethink and do what's best for the children, why ruin something that has currently been working the last 2yrs.

Genuine question: Why is 4 days on/off so bad? I don't understand how it's better or worse than week on/off or any other system? Is it because the days change as it's over 8 not 7 or 14 ? It's effectively a monthly routine as repeats over 28 days. I don't see why that's such a challenge for everyone to get their head round

@Whyherewego because you can't always book wrap around childcare in this pattern so whilst the dad is at work for this shifts and doesn't have to worry about the kids as it's not his time. The mum may have to work flexibly on those days to accommodate the kids, she may also be juggling having to get the kids into school and then to work. Whereas the dad only has the kids when he doesn't have work so he doesn't have the same stresses, he drops the kids off to school then gets to chill until pick up time. Whereas if there is fixed days. The mum may only have to juggle this on the same days or could choose to book the childcare wrap around to make life for manageable. She may be having to stop work at 2.45pm to pick kids up and then work in the evenings to catch up.

It also means you cant say have every thurs evening to go to a gym class. You'll have to miss some becomes depending on the 4 on/4 off shifts because you obvs can't leave the kids at home alone yet. One of the few benefits to have shared 50/50 care is having some time to yourself as an adult and it would be nice to be able to go a routine thing weekly to make friends etc.

Shift workers usually get the easier side of the deal as the other partner is expected to work around the shifts and if they have M-F job there is more juggling required whereas the shift worker person never has to juggle work and kids.

There is the mental load of this too planning ahead, looking at who has the kids on the 4 days on/off. E.g. work asks if you can go to work in London for a conference (you have to check) but if you knew that a Thurs was a day you didn't have to do school pick up you can automatically do this. Whereas if you have fixed days you can get into a routine more as you know you have the same days that you could put as wfh days and the same days for office days.

These are just some examples that I can think of as I am a partner of a shift worker (not divorced but I still can't do a regular Thurs evening class because of his shifts and young kids at home) but if we ever got divorce I'd want him to put on a request to go family friendly/fixed rota which he is entitled to do at work and many people do have.

OP is that something you have considered requesting?

It sounds like she’s having a mental breakdown.

Moving into a camper with two kids is bonkers. The fun will wear off as soon as reality sets and the kids argue, they both need to be woken, dressed and taken somewhere because on of them needs the loo in the night, she realises there’s no space to do homework etc.

Equally, if she needs more time to herself she can structure her work differently. Longer days when you have the kids so she can do some early finishes/days off during her childfree time.

This request for change is entirely driven by her breakup. The difficulties she’s experiencing are because her recent ex is no longer there to help with cooking, cleaning, ferrying kids and helping to keep them entertained. She’s experiencing life as a single mum and it’s hard and scary (not to minimise your contribution to the child care).

I don’t entirely agree with PP who said the four on/four off is difficult to manage. You both planned children within this context so it is entirely what she was expecting with regard to managing her own work-life balance. She also probably has more free time by not having the kids at all for half the time.

when I coparented, if one of us wanted to make a change the other would look to see if it was actually possible.

If I could change my hours slightly I would have. So would he. Sometimes we could and sometimes we couldn’t. Once the kids got old enough to express an opinion, that would also be taken into account.

If you can’t change your shifts, you can’t. I don’t get why your job has anything to do with when she works.

However, weirdly, a few years ago he decided he was living in a camper van as well. The kids stopped going. So in all honesty, I would start looking at viable your job will be if the kids decide they aren’t going back to her, especially since they have already said they don’t want to do that.

My ex did it in similar circumstances. Broke up with a partner and basically decided he didn’t like his adult life and the obligations. I think he knew the kids would end up with me. I was fine with it. He made out he was upset for 2 weeks then took his camper van to Europe. The kids get occasional texts and phone calls.

A bit off topic @Portalsalways, but is your ex tge dad that fed his kids badger?

My ex had a 4 on/4 off shift pattern. Throughout the 50/50 years we revolved it around his shift pattern. It did become extremely tricky to work around as the week was 8 days, in effect.
It also meant my childcare was more difficult to arrange and plan as it was different days each week.
He had no childcare to sort and also had plenty of child free days during his 4 on, as he was asleep for most of his night work.
You've said when you move over to 50/50 you told her what you could offer, but don't seem to want to acknowledge that you have benefited from everything revolving around your schedule.
As my kids got older and childcare was less of an issue it was ok, but the early years were difficult working around his shift pattern.

Jesus wept! No!

Has someone actually done that?

I thought my ex was bad, but he never fed the kids badger! 🤣

Yes! It was a dad that had gone off grid and the final straw for the mum was the badger meat!😬

Can't remember which thread it was now, possibly a 'craziest things your ex has done'

Yes, because the days change, but crucially because they change in a way that isn’t related to another common system. So weekly/fortnightly or monthly commitments that the kids or Ex might want to do require there to be plans in place for when kids are with ex and when they aren’t or for what will appear to everyone else to be sporadic skipping.

Week on/week off can also be disruptive for weekly activities, but it’s easier to get buy in from others when you can commit to being there every other week, and it’s far more likely to fit in with other people (especially since quite a few kids have EOW schedules with divorced parents).

I too wondered about whether your ex has to arrange childcare as this must be an expensive pain in the arse with 4 on 4 off.

As things are arranged around your work so that you have zero childcare, you could see if she would agree to the status quo continuing if you pay 50% of the childcare bill.

If she's a self employed groomer she can surely pick when she works , if the children are happy with the arrangement then I wouldn't agree to change it

I will have a look. Because, to be honest, if the kids had come home and told me that I would have 100% believe that was something he would do. I will be interested to read that 😂

I wonder if this off grid living is a new version of a midlife crisis. Doesn’t seem as rare as I thought it was

Wasn't it road kill as well or am I remembering that wrong?

4+4 would be a pain the arse tbh but you adjusted to her wishes two years ago as I read it?

Say now if you can't work around 7+7. You don't have to go with her ideas but be prepared for court. And I would the camper thing in mind think of a plan if she hands the children over 24/7.

No. Until two years ago his ex had them more (because she wanted them more). Two years ago she was ready for him to start looking after them half the time, and the hours were arranged entirely on his terms.

OP has been very flexible about not having his kids, but hasn’t been flexible about having them.

Okay I am lost but OP doesn't have to change if it's doesn't fit.

I wouldn't change the current routine mainly because I don't think the change is in the best interests if the children.

Not sure you can say it was arranged entirely on his own terms.

He changed to permanent nights AND the children’s mother was more than happy with that. It suited both.

The children’s mother now wants to change it because she is single and wants to live in a camper van. There’s not much really much else that makes sense about why she wants this.

The Op working permanent nights, it’s really conducive to one week on one week off. And who is to say he can just change to permanent days?

The kids are also happy with the set up. I think if the Op can accommodate or compromise, it would be worth looking at. But am not sure saying he had it all his own way when it has suited everyone is fair.

I'd go back to court if your ex persists with this.
OP has always been a shift worker, the ex knew and accepted that when having dc. It's not reasonable to change it do they can live in a bloody camper van - that's definitely not putting the kids first!

As others have pointed out - if his ex just refuses to look after them, the courts won’t make her. And if the plan to move into a camper van is a sign of real psychiatric problems or lack of capacity to care for the kids (which isn’t to say that no one could be a good parent living in a camper van) and not just a flight of eccentricity in the wake of a painful break up, then OP may need to be more flexible and push for more than 50/50 for his kids’ sake.

I agree that OP shouldn’t just acquiesce to his ex and she doesn’t sound like she’s being reasonable, has a stable plan nor is putting the kids first. Shared care should be a negotiation that balances everyone’s needs for a good fit, not just what works for one parent and/or the kids. Nevertheless, in general changing circumstances may mean that agreements that have worked need to change, even if that’s a bit worse for one party and better for the other. And it would be particularly unfair not to consider it if the previous arrangement was skewed the other way. I’m mainly pointing out the the OP has had it good so far - his ex has accommodated a difficult schedule that is unlikely to have had any net benefit for the kids over a more conventional one and that will likely have been a significant pain for her.