Manager ignoring/overiding occupational health recommendations

[milligan75]

I'm 15 weeks pregnant with my second and have suffered horribly this time round with sickness and nausea. I've tried 3 different anti sickness meds now which have not helped and have been on hospital on a drip a few weeks back. I haven't had one day off sick but have been WFH for the last 6 weeks or so following a fit note from my GP to recommend to state the gp recommends I wfh (the gp did also say they were happy to sign me off completely) but I opted for the recommendation to wfh more), if my employer couldn't accommodate this they would have to take the note as unfit to work. Manager agreed to accommodate this for the time being but put in a referral to occ health.

I still feel awful and struggling each day. I had my occ health appt the other day and the occ health doctor stated on the report they recommend I work from home while symptoms of nausea and vomiting are still significant so I felt a bit relieved knowing I didn’t have to struggle into the office each day (normally have to do 3 days in the office and only 1 at home). There has been nothing I haven’t been able to do while wfh. My manager called me today and said I need to come into the office 2 days next week as if I’m managing at home then she needs to see how I manage at work, then likely will want me back in the 3 days the following week. I don’t know what the point was in the occ health referral when manager has totally ignored it anyway. Can they do that? Do I have any leg to stand on here? Is there anything I can do? I will say I never had one day off sick in either of my pregnancies and this was the first ever time I’ve had a note from the gp. I just feel pure dread and anxious at the thought of struggling into the office next week as there really is not benefit. Please does anyone have any advice?

Go in to work. Vomit on your manager's shoes.

Sorry not helpful but you must be thinking of it.

My manager doesn't see how I can manage at home but not in the office. There is a big difference to vomitting in the comfort of your own toilet right next to you than having to face to the public work toilets which are constantly busy where I will be overheard and uncomfortable each time. I wasn't expecting my manager to say this so I feel a bit like she's dropped a bomb on me and I don't know what/if there's anything I can do.

Your GP recommended you work from home.

OH recommended you work from home.

Your manager is not a healthcare professional and I don't know why they think they know better...

I would email HR and copy your manager into the correspondence and state that you are not well enough to commute and work from an office as pointed at by two independent healthcare professionals and that you are concerned that this is being ignored and that your health and pregnancy are being put at risk.

If HR does not step in to confirm that you need to have this reasonable adjustment, then take your GP's offer to go on long term sick.

There's a website, something like pregnant then screwed

Good luck, I've been in the position of having a vile piece of shit as a manager and I hated every second of it

I should have mentioned, I didn’t bother renewing my last fit note because I thought my work were being supportive allowing me to continue to WFH while my symptoms were will significant but obviously not. I can’t understand why they bothered to refer me to occ health if they were just going to totally ignore the advice anyway. It was only just over a week ago my manager told me not to just carry on wfh until occ health report so I didn't expect this and thought she would be supportive of their advice.

The advice from @Startingagainandagain is all you need. Go through HR and get their advice, specifically stating how it's putting your health at risk during pregnancy. Yuu could also request a risk assessment if you haven't had one done yet.

If you get sick pay I would get signed off.
I did this with my 2nd, work were very unsupportive. Ignored midwife and consultant information ( high risk) so I got signed off.

Does your work place have a HR function? I would definitely contact them if so as I imagine they would’ve arranged the OH referral and received the report that was then passed to the manager.

The key word here is “reasonable” adjustments. The onus now should be on your manager to evidence why you continuing to WFH isn’t a reasonable adjustment that the business can support. Have you had any feedback so far to support a claim of WFH being unreasonable to support for the duration of your pregnancy?

I would also be making a call to ACAS if you don’t have any joy with your HR dept.

In short, yes a business can overide OH recommendations (as that’s what they are, recommendations) but in order to do so if it came to an employment tribunal, they’d need to demonstrate why the adjustments were not reasonable.

Good luck!

My advice would be to get signed off sick and stay off until you're better. You're protected with pregnancy related sickness. I appreciate pay could be a factor.

You could contact OH and ask them for guidance but don't even think about struggling at work or trying to appease your boss!

I was allowed to wfh for a bit when my sickness (HG) started and my manager said she understood sickness in the first trimester... Since then I have been in and out of work as unfortunately pregnancy sickness doesn't disappear for some of us at 12 weeks!

I'm now in my third trimester and have had to go off work sick again and this time have been off for almost 3 weeks (my longest period). I'm only just beginning to feel human again! I was not getting any thanks for even trying to be in work. Look after yourself!

Thanks all. Yes we do have HR who I am familiar with due to meetings and the nature of my role but I strongly suspect due to what I know that HR will side with my manager. I have just checked and my last fit note to recommend wfh ran out on 13th so considering getting in touch with them to renew, what that be advisable do you think? My only concern is we have a week to center parcs booked for next Friday which was has been booked since before I even knew I was pregnant and can't be changed, I fear if they know (which my colleague does) that I'm away that it will look like I'm trying to pull a fast one? Can you even go away if your signed off work?

I'm not sure if I mentioned already but I work for the NHS so sick pay is actually really good.

Just because Centre Parks is booked doesn't mean you will be going OP.... Just conversationally say you are looking forward to the week off to rest.

Agree with all previous advice given that it is unreasonable for you to return to work whilst you are still so unwell. You have been hospitalised and now are medicated and still working so they need to be very reasonable and realistic with you. No way would I be dragging myself in, public transport or otherwise, to need to be sick in a bin or a shared loo.

Of course you can go on a booked trip while signed off. I can sit on a beach with a cold drink when I can't work!

Copy in HR, and my wording would be something like, "I am not well enough to be in the office. I am vomiting every X minutes. This leaves me with the options of WFH or being off sick. Please advise me what information you additionally require to facilitate one of these options."

I'd also join a Union immediately and copy them into everything. HR are there to protect the employer and Union remind them of this.

@MrsTerryPratchett wording sounds good.

If needed you can self certificate for up to a week (can just call in on the day you're due in the office and explain you're too unwell to travel to work/be in the office), end your sickness to take your AL and then reevaluate.

I heard of an appeal against sickness following a NHS manager not complying with OH recommendations.

Manager hearing the appeal looked shocked & appeal was upheld.

HR are to there to protect the organisation from Tribunal hearings and embarrassing decisions, not complying with OH recommendations is high up on that list

Hi all, just need to vent here... I emailed my manager yesterday basically saying that reflecting on our phone call and from the recommendation of both my GP and occ health, I do not feel being back into the office while symptoms are still significant is beneficial and that this could put my health at risk. I mentioned I had leave coming up and asked if she would support continuing to wfh until then, and that I have requested fit note extension from gp. She replied a very long email which I found quite snotty and unsupportive but basically saying again that saying again what is the difference in me working from home to working in the office and that now I'm a bit firyher on and could tell more people, they will understand. I couldn't give an arse about what people think it's about how I am feeling! She doesn't get it. I have been trying to contact hr advisor but honestly is a waste of time as she is up my managers arse and will always side with her anyway. She said she only supported wfh previously while waiting for occ health report (which was ignored anyway?) was because I was early within the pregnancy and were not making many people aware of this yet, therefore empathised that the sickness I was experiencing may raise question to others which would make me feel uncomfortable. It's never been about what others think, it's about me not feeling well enough to come in! At the end of the email, despite saying I was awaiting note extension from my GP, she said 'I will meet with you on Monday at (place of work)'. I've been feeling stressed about this ever since and just feel quite upset with it all.

The only real reason I didn't get my GP to sign me off completely despite them offering was because I am the only person who does my role and I know for a fact I would come back to a ridiculous workload and backlog so thought it be easier just to continue but work from the comfort of my own home.

I'd email her saying if she and others in the office don't mind you puking into a bucket on your desk every 30 mins you'll give it a go.

I said that I'm sitting at home with a sick bowl next to me and this isn't appropriate in the office!

Aww that's really rubbish. Honestly don't go in, look after yourself as from experience you won't get any thanks.

You can self certificate for up to 7 days so call your GP on Monday and ask for a note stating pregnancy related sickness/HG. With 6 months full pay (presuming no other significant absences this year) you could be signed off sick for the rest of your pregnancy if need be.

I was so unwell a few weeks ago I just couldn't do it anymore. The thought of work just made me want to cry. A few weeks rest (and medication taking effect) has worked and I am ready to return but I imagine I would be far worse if I hadn't got some rest.

If you haven't already could you ask your GP for Xonvea?

I'm hoping to hear back from the GP on Monday but I just know it's going to be playing on my mind all weekend and I'll be worrying about it. I really hate any kind of conflict but after her previous email I feel like telling her to get fucked to be honest (obviously I would never but I can dream)! I haven't heard of those meds but will look into!

I have tried a whole range of anti sickness and Xonvea was the best for me by far. I mentioned it as lots of people don't know about it and my GP had never prescribed it before (obstetrician recommended but told me to ask the GP) and so I had to advocate for it and the GP wanted to call them as they knew nothing about it. Had to play around with the dose too and GP was very cautious.

Tiredness/fatigue was a massive side effect and meant I needed a massive nap mid day but it was so much better than the constant vomiting!

I understand exactly how you feel!

In my last pregnancy I was so worried and stayed in work when I shouldn't have which made things worse.

They (guess my employer) then tried to trigger disciplinary due to sickness and then my maternity leave weeks before they legally could. All it took to stop it was to send them some links around legal rights in pregnancy...

This time round they haven't attempted anything. I have had a lot of 'I know this doesn't count as pregnancy related but' comments... however I think I'm immune to them! I don't feel guilty when I need time off anymore and neither should you! I have actually tried to stay in work but for me, not them. They have shown you they won't put you first so make sure you do.

You are right to see your GP and get signed off again.

You should not have to deal with all this extra stress.

Frankly I would stay off sick until your maternity leave kicks in...

You have tried to be reasonable and you could have continued to do your role perfectly well from home.

It is totally your manager's fault for creating a problem and risking not having anyone do your job for months!