Was I wrong to speak up at work?

[bridgelolo]

I have only been there two months but the whole place is chaos.
I work selling kitchens /bathrooms in a well known shop.
They have shops all around the country.
I work Monday -Friday 8am-5pm
Saturday 9-1 pm

Last week after work we had to go to a meeting at a hotel 1 hours drive away.
This meeting was from 6.30pm -9.30pm
I got home after 10.30pm and had to be back in for 8am.
We didn't get paid for this
It was them telling us how to sell more ,how to make them more money.
This happens every 3 months.
They provided tea /coffee
So we had no time for food and were starving.

I said I didn't think having to travel 1 hour then have a meeting for 3 hours after work was great.
I suggested that every 3 months for the meeting dat , closing at lunch time was a better idea then staff could get home at normal time.
Or suggested it being via teams rather than having to travel .

Was I wrong to speak up?
Does anyone else think this is a bit shit after being in work all day ?

No that’s shit, but it might be worth biding your time to speak out until you’re more embedded and have more information . I should focus on the practicalities and the effects on the staff and sales.

Point out:

• the time staff left home and the time you all get back
• the amount of sleep between getting home and having to get up the next day

how that affects your work the next day

• no time to eat a proper meal all day
• poor concentration during the meeting as a result
• the effects on motivation and therefore on sales of such meetings
• the poor impression it gives staff about how successful the company is if it has to fix training in such a way
• if they want to eat into staff time do it on a Saturday afternoon when people aren’t tired- obviously this would affect people’s free time but that makes the intrusion explicit
• arrange catering to acknowledge that staff are doing this unpaid and need to eat in order to focus on what’s being said
• their staff should be their best asset and should be nurtured because that affects the bottom line
• research staff turnover

It's wrong. If it isn't in your contract you should be paid, your travelling expenses should be paid and there should be food.

However there's speaking up in a constructive way "I really enjoyed the presentation but feel we would all have got more out of it if we hadn't been hungry and I was so exhausted the following day I could barely put the sales tips into practice and hope I remember them next week". Can I apply for toil for the unpaid hours and how do I do that? All smiley and helpful.

Or there's speaking up in a way to get people's hackles up. "You know it was unreasonable not to give us dinner, and we weren't paid to attend and should have had the morning off or the shop should have shut yesterday afternoon for training."

Two choices op: either quietly plug away dropping in a helpful suggestion from time to time and get yourself promoted or find a job with a better organisation.

Do you get commission on top of your basic £1600?

Are you working those hours every week OP? 50 hours a week, over 6 days, for a low salary and expected to do more unpaid hours on top?

That’s highly exploitative. You’d be much better off, and likely much better treated, working 40 hrs a week in Aldi.

We do pay into a pension which is just over £100
We start at 8 but have to be in for 7.30 and Fridays we have to be there for 7 am for a team shop meeting.
We can get commission if shop hits targets but as we are still new it's not happening yet

Are you even earning minimum wage? That’s ridiculous hours to be working in what sounds like basically a retail job that they sold to you as something much better.

Aldi and Lidl pay way more for fewer hours and a lot less hassle.

It was sold as "account trades manager "
Which is basically me cold calling traders trying to sign them up to the company so they use us for any developments they do.

I think your best bet is to add up all the hours you actually work. Including all the extra 30 mins at the start of the day and the extra meetings. Then calculate the hourly rate you are being paid.

That should give you your answer. Is it fair/competitive for the industry you are in?

Is it in your contract that you will attend these meetings, how often, any reimbursement. If it's not in your contract I would be asking for mileage costs and overtime or TOIL

You will be contracted to work a set amount, anything outside of this is additional work

It's also a breach of the working time regs (required 11 hour gap between shifts - yours was 10.5 hours).

It may be permissible to breach this in emergency situations e.g. doctors, but this is not one of those occasions.

You know and they know that it's a shit job and a shit way to treat their staff. You were right to speak up and remind them of this, and you'd be even more right if you were to start looking for another job asap.

Just out of interest, what's the first letter of this company's name so I can avoid them?

Sounds rubbish, stuff like that should be overtime or TOIL

For free? No. If it's that important they should pay her.

Your hours also sound ridiculous, btw OP.

You are required to work such additional hours unpaid as are necessary for the proper performance of your duties or as the firm may reasonably require of you having regard to the needs of the business.

very standard clause

OP check your contract. I would wager it states this or very similar

Sounds like a terrible job. I think you did well speaking up however it'll make no difference. My brother works in retail and routinely comes in on his day off for a meeting. I told him no way I'd do that but apparently you have to attend.

Can you get a job elsewhere?

Do you work for free?

i work above and beyond my contractual hours as per my job needs.

As per my contract, and probably yours too

Well that is where we are going wrong. The only people who benefit from that are the people at the top of the chain who get free labour.

It still doesn't make it right.

I rarely work over my contracted hours. I simply get my work done during my paid hours.

Ah no, I'd either be consulting my union rep or looking for another job.

are you on probation

with everything you have posted about this job, even if this particular issue was changed… it doesn’t deal with all the rest

well it makes it “right” insofar as it is likely accordance with the contract the OP signed

Contracts can only go above and beyond legal minimum standards. You can't contract out of legal rights. @bridgelolo has a right to be paid minimum wage, and any unpaid hours contribute to calculating the wage she is paid. Whether or not they are in the contract.

What makes you think it's likely? A well written contract should set out exactly what staff are required to do for the money they're being paid within the law - either the OP hasn't read it (doubtful - unless you're an idiot you read your contract) or it's not and doesn't.

OP I think you were right to speak up. It’s pretty shit of them. But there are a few red flags from what you’ve described that make me think this is a poor place to work. Christmas parties for example should be optional. There shouldn’t be pressure to attend. Particularly if in London and you’re in Newcastle! If they want colleagues to bond they should be making efforts as a company to do that. It sounds like they want their employees to give give give and they’re giving very little back other than salary

Also just because there is wording in a contract, it doesn’t mean the contract is correct. I would be concerned as other PP’s have said about whether you are being paid minimum wage if they are asking you to do extra and are not paying you. All these extra hours mount up. At the very least they should offer time back?

If you’re concerned about other aspects give ACAS a call for piece of mind

i say “likely”

because it is a very common clause 🤷