What class am I?

[justleggingsandatee]

Inspired by the thread about class in the UK...

I was brought up in a very affluent area by very working class parents.

They really couldn't afford to live there, they lived on a shoestring in order to live in a house in catchment for good school.

They made an effort to take us on holiday, but our clothes and shoes were always cheap / too small / wrong season / holes in them etc. we never had the "right" stuff. No piano lessons or swimming lessons etc.

Despite being in catchment for good school, due to bullying, at 13 my parents scrimped even more to send me to private school.

For this reason, when people talk about class, I never know where I fit in.

My parents come from very working class backgrounds. And I feel like I had a working class upbringing in a very middle class town. This was exacerbated when I was sent to private school (which was a very difficult experience, having such a different home life to the girls there).

I know it doesn't really matter, and I don't really understand the preoccupation with class. I just feel like I'm in the situation where I don't really fit in anywhere. Working class people think I'm "posh" because of the private school; middle class people think I'm working class because of my parents, my inability to ski, play an instrument, the fact I am not well travelled due to having to work my way through uni etc, even the fact I am not a particularly adventurous eater (like my parents).

I have young kids myself now and wonder where they fit in in this class structure.

We live in a small house in an affluent town, good school catchment, private school definitely not an option. Very lucky to be able to afford one budget European holiday each year but will probably never be able to afford long haul.

I don't know. I guess I just feel like have never fit in.

Kids lives:

They do extra curriculars. Go to a nice school (state school).

They spend time with grandparents, but they aren't out hiking with them, or being taught piano by them, like some of their friends. Or eating varied diets (parents have quite an old fashioned, traditional diet. Meat and two veg type thing).

I just think your roots account for an awful lot. And I don't mean that like "it's hard to get away from your roots". I just did it hard being brought up in such a working class way, in such an otherwise middle class environment. And my kids continue to experience that, due to the lifestyle of my parents (who I adore, by the way, I don't mean to sound critical).

Im still elite!! Madness.

There is no demarcation line that goes: Working / Middle / Upper. It simply doesn't work like that. There's a whole spectrum of it, with umpteen offshoots and alleyways off it, all round the houses and back again.

Nobody (apart from maybe landed gentry) fits easily into one category.

I was sent to a private school (junior) and had very working class parents. My dad went to the pub every day, had a manual job albeit self employed and looked down on anyone who worked in an office as it wasn’t proper work. He took his top off when it was hot, smoked and you’d find fag ends in the toilet. My mum was unhappy got drunk quite a lot (not during the day) and also had a manual job. They had both had poor childhoods and were very damaged people, I was a mistake.

happily, I had junior school friends who had equally as dysfunctional childhoods and parents so I didn’t feel less than - I was embarrassed when my dad picked me up stinking of booze but would have been whichever school I was at.

Can I ask what you think made your parents working class? Ok they may not have been rich, but they could still afford to send you to private school and live in an affluent area...ok they may have struggled to pay for those things but they still managed it.

Neither DH nor I nor DC can ski or play an instrument, and we aren't massively well-travelled though have gone to a small number of countries. I don't think that's a useful definition. The only family I know who ski regularly are very much WC/lower MC borders (he's a firefighter, she works in school admin, kids go to comprehensive schools)

You might find the book "Watching the English" by Kate Fox an interesting read - she is an anthropologist who has studied the unwritten rules of English society with the same techniques are are used on tribal cultures with very little contact with western culture.

I think the definitions are too complex to summarise in a few sentences but if you can go into a venue or situation that is ovbiously Working Class (e.g. a factory or building site) and no one will think you too posh to be there then you are Working Class and if you can go to an upper class event like a society ball given by a duke and no one will raise an eyebrow or think you don't fit then you are Upper Class and everyone else is Middle Class. So if Working Class people think you are posh then you are middle class under this definition.

There are various layers and sub-classifications within the Middle Class though, and there are certainly categories of people who are subconsciously granted the right not to fit into any class category. People born in other countries will be granted honourary membership of either working, middle or upper class classification according to whether they are poor, rich or middle-income. People whose income is out of alignment with their class will generally be considered to retain membership of the class they were born into, but their children may move up or down a sub-step depending on what profession they go into and who they marry - it would take several generations before the decendent of an UC person could be definitely WC, and vice-versa.

Also as PP point out, WC people don't worry for a moment about whether or not they properly qualify as WC. Neither do UC people, so if you worry about it you are definitely MC. Anyone who feels that Class is something to be ashamed of or distressed by will definitely be MC. You can tell where you are within MC by what your aspirations are and whether there's anything you would feel ashamed of because people might mis-classify you.

@Comedycook fair question.

They both came from very traditional working class families. A previous poster was not far off when they said coal miners.

Both left school very young out of necessity. Mum worked in a factory, dad in manual job.

The difference I guess is that they both went to night school to get qualifications. I think mum did A level English and dad did some sort of trade qualification.

They bought the smallest, most rundown house in the best area they could, in order to send us to the local school.

They funded private school in part through a bursary and partly through releasing equity in their house, which had benefited from a rise in value. My dad by this point had risen from purely manual labour to being a manager of the labourers, so was earning more money.

I am immensely proud of both of them.

I never hear class mentioned outside of Mumsnet. It really doesn't matter (unless you are Hyacinth Bucket).

So I'd probably say your parents came from a working class background but elevated themselves to the lower middle classes.

People don't often mention it IRL but they certainly think it I'm afraid.

It strikes me that as an adult you live a very nice, normal, ordinary life. Happily married, nice little house in a good area, two children in a decent school, you and your DH have fairly average but decent kind of jobs, you still have good relationships with your family, have friends who suit who you are now and can get away for a little holiday each year.

If you need to put a class marker on it - then as others say, it's lower middle class. But I wouldn't think too deeply about this .

I think you need to come to terms with your past, that things weren't ideal in your childhood, no matter how hard your parents tried for you. But that is gone now. Don't spoil your current, normally happy life by doing all these what-ifs about the past and comparing yourself to others who were just different to you. Not better, different.

I don't know, would chatting to some kind of counsellor help you ? You do need to relax and enjoy what you have . And not worry that your DC's time with their grandparents isn't spent learning piano and eating special food!!

@SleepGoalsJumped

Also as PP point out, WC people don't worry for a moment about whether or not they properly qualify as WC.
You say this as if WC are done homogeneous group. They don't all think the same. There are definitely some WC people who want to be perceived as MC. Which is fine. Aspiration is fine.

Food is such a weird one. Why is plain "meat and two veg" working class? Firstly, not everyone's white British. Secondly, you can get halloumi in Wetherspoons and have been able to for years.

Yes, you are right, thank you.

I think perhaps I've not articulated it very well and it is more about my childhood.

Working class is fine.

Middle class is fine.

I think my issue is just a sense of not belonging to either group.

I was brought up in a middle class area, but in a very working class home. I always felt a little bit different.

I was then sent to a private, all girls school, which was probably upper middle class, so I felt even more different.

Fish out of water is probably how I felt. But I didn't have much common ground with working class people because I didn't really know them, as everyone in our area was middle class.

I just always felt a bit out my depth. Visiting friends houses I was always acutely aware of concentrating on what they were doing and how they behaved, because it was different to my house which was a bit more rough and ready. I just always felt quite nervous and like I was doing the wrong thing.

Parents would ask if I liked salmon / pesto / tagliatelle / potatoes dauphinois for dinner and I had no idea!

Yeah. I think if you want to try to define class at all (and it’s all pretty pointless, although if it helps someone to check their privilege then that’s good) then it should be based on your current work and lifestyle rather than what your parents’ jobs were when you were young and what kind of school you went to. Of course, those childhood factors usually affect who you are now, but thankfully there’s a lot more class mobility these days! I find it annoying when some people (hi MIL 😂) claim to be working class because of their upbringing, when they’re clearly anything but anymore.

I think this hits the nail on the head. You had a nice house in a nice area, even went to private school. On a true working class wage they wouldn't have been able to do that. You lived on the bread line by choice.

According to the quiz thing I'm a new affluent worker 🤷🏼‍♀️ my parents were definitely working class. My mum didn't work through illness and dad was a lorry driver. His parents lived on a council estate. My mums parents didn't, they did own their own home so maybe that's the only anomaly.

I really don't think people make friends on the basis of class and background. They make friends based on common interests.

I live in Cornwall but am not remotely interested in dogs, horses or sailing, which lots of people here like. I have made friends through doing things I like and am interested in. My friends are from a range of backgrounds - some from very disadvantaged childhoods, some from much wealthier and grander than mine. I don't judge people on their upbringing, it just makes things more interesting.