Pool. 1 teacher. 16 Yr8 kids. Would you be ok with that?

[CurvyKale]

DS has a school trip next week. They're walking to an unattended swimming pool for the day. They did the same last year but DS's TA was there also. This year, she's no longer there and they're splitting his hours between various other members of the staff.
DS has dyspraxia and cannot swim. The boy who shared the TA last year also cannot swim
but hates water so last year didn't go in the pool. I believe the guidelines for swimming lessons at school are 1:9 but does this count as a swimming lesson?
Would you innocently ask which other teacher is going - only class teacher is listed on the info sheet?

If this includes non-swimmers then I wouldn't be happy with the ratio.

No, I wouldn't be happy with that. I'd say minimum 2 staff for that number.

If they could all swim yes, but doesn’t feel right with non swimmers

Unattended as in no lifeguards?

No I wouldn’t be happy. There should be a life guard in attendance in addition. What if teacher is helping one child with an issue while another child gets into difficulty?

I wouldn't be that happy with 1:16 if they were all confident swimmers. In thst situation there needs to be a least a 1:2 ratio for the non swimmers.

Are you able to go?

if there wasn't another adult for DS he wouldn't be going if he was mine.

Where I work any school trip, no matter how small the group, there'd be 2 members of staff minimum. I think it's fine to ask.

My school had a swimming pool.

We frequently had PE lessons and swimming clubs with one teacher and 30 kids - but they could swim.

The groups who could not swim got significantly more adults.

Regardless of the guidelines it doesn't sound safe.

Other people there or exclusive use?
Depth of pool? Are all children in their depth?
Empty pool or one with giant inflatables you can get stuck under?
Lifeguard? (assume not as said unattended).

Does the teacher have life guard qualification?
Or even first aid?

Ask to see their risk assessment.

As your DC can’t swim it doesn’t sound like it’s a suitable trip for him. For the other DC who can I would have thought fine if there’s a lifeguard, since leisure centres usually allow 8+ without an adult, but if by ‘unattended’ you mean no lifeguard and no teacher is qualified to take on the role instead, then it doesn’t sound safe.

As a (former) teacher there's no way I would take 16 children swimming on my own.

Yr8 as in 13 year olds? I wouldn't be worried about the ratio specifically as the DCs are older, but any trip needs at least 2 adults in case of emergency - one to stay with the injured child and one to get help.

As a point of interest regarding ratios, a level 3 swim coach can directly train up to 36 swimmers at a time, but obviously there will also be lifeguards and at least 1 other coach covering the other lanes.
It is also possible for all those DCs to go for a public swim together without a parent/guardian, and there be just one lifeguard on duty. Our pool allows over 8s to swim alone and rarely has more than one lifeguard.

It might help to tell us which country you are in. It can't be England because it's school holidays here and I didn't think that Scottish schools had gone back yet either. Different countries will have different regulations.

Will they be split into smaller groups once there?

There are lifeguards poolside at the Olympics for a reason.
In youth competitive swimming there are life guards and those children swim a mile several times a week.

16 children in a pool including non swimmers with no dedicated life guard would be a no from me.

If the pool has a lifeguard who is dedicated to just that and not the teacher attempting to lifeguard and who will be distracted with other things I'd be fine with that ratio.

Is there no lifeguards? Where I live kids can go to the pool from age 8 upwards without an adult. My dd swims competitively so i wouldn't be worried , but with a child who can't swim I'd want a lifeguard there.

The pool will have a lifeguard. It would be fine if they're all swimmers.
If they're not, I would raise it with the school.

Are you sure there's no lifeguard?

I wouldn't think a trip to a swimming pool would be suitable for non swimmers regardless of the number of adults.

Yr8? So 13? Wouldn’t even cross my mind to be worried! If you are that bothered, don’t send him!

In the UK, going out of school for any reason, anywhere, would require at least two adults. A single teacher couldn't even take a group to the end of the road and back.

So if you're here, I imagine that only the adult with responsibility for the trip has been mentioned

www.oeapng.info. This is the Outdoor Education Advisors Panel National Guidance website which provides advice and guidance on all matters related to off site school visits. Enter into the search ‘swimming’ and you’ll get the appropriate information. At least 2 adults minimum but the risk assessment might require more. Plus if this is recreational swimming there must be a lifeguard on the poolside at all times!

If your DS and another are non-swimmers then on this occasion they shouldn’t be going swimming, I’m afraid. I wouldn’t give my permission to this for a non-swimmer.

All the other ratio stuff I wouldn’t be bothered by for 13 yr olds if my own child was a competent swimmer. So it’s sort of irrelevant really - what you need to ensure is that your child will be safe. Which may mean not granting permission.

The pool will have a lifeguard
It doesn't. It is an unattended pool, there are signs up informing you. I've been several times.

@Alpolonia I don't think so. There's the main pool with a diving wing and a baby pool. Last year two classes went, so each class teacher was there. I didn't bother to check who else was going as I knew the TA was going specifically for DS and the other boy.