Is it normal for my toes to be able bend this much?

[Cosyautumnnights]

Weird question (and I apologise in advance for the manky toe pics) but I’m trying to decide if it’s worth asking my GP if I may possibly have joint hypermobility or even EDS. I have mentioned this in the past but have been brushed off.

I’ve been very bendy all of my life but not in a positive way, I hurt and ache a lot. Had to give up ballet as a child as it left my feet hurting so much.

I have chronic gut issues and despite endless tests over the years I’m always told it’s just IBS and functional dyspepsia. I also have endometriosis (not sure about a connection there?).

No one I know is this bendy apart from my elderly mum who has had endless health issues during her life. My ds19 has suffered knee subluxations since childhood. This has become worse and last week a physio told him he could possibly have joint hypermobility but then discharged him.

I am a little anxious about mentioning this to my GP as I suffer from anxiety and depression and worry they attribute so much of my issues to my mental health, which they usually do.

I’ve added an image of my fingers which are also bendy. My arms can flex a lot also.

to be able to bend this much!

I have EDS and my toes don’t bend forward that much. They spread out really wide though.

As an aside, anxiety can also be a presenting issue

I have hypermobility and my toes don't go that far but my thumb joints do. The hand I think it very common, everyone in my house can do that. It can affect certain joints and not others. My hips are very bad but my knees are very stable which is good.
Unless you are a very severe case, like wheelchair bound the GP won't do much. Avoid yoga and over stretching, you're better off doing a lot of strengthening exercises to help support your joints.
Get a privage specialist physio appointment if your after good advice.

No I don't think that amount of movement in toes is normal. I'm quite bendy (probably borderline hypermobile) and mine don't even bend 90 degrees from flat if my sole is standing on the floor.

There is a test (Beighton Score) you can do for it at home which it sounds like you'd pass - not sure what could be done for this on the NHS, though. You might benefit more from a private personal trainer who has knowledge in this area who can recommend you a fitness regime to build up strength without overexerting yourself. What I've been reading lately (mostly on social media, so take with a pinch of salt!) is that people with hypermobile joints often over-extend a joint in order to do everyday things like reach high up items so we don't stretch our muscles in the way that most people do in everyday life, resulting in poor tone. A good personal trainer can show you exercises which will actually help to build that tone and stability.

I can do the finger thing but not the toes. No hypermobility etc

Mine are like that and my hands too

There are medical papers about the link of hyper mobility and Endo.

But as you know anything endo related isn't really extensively researched.

Out of interest if you did get diagnosed with hyper mobility what would that change? Would I mean more research into your IBS? As it can't be cured as such?

Have you done this test on yourself and added up the score. It would be better to go to the GP with your score and ask for a referral.

https://www.ehlers-danlos.com/assessing-joint-hypermobility/

You probably do have hypermobility which can also include things like stomach problems.
Its worth mentioning to the GP with kids and get a rheumatology diagnosis because they may need aids like splinting, footwear, I get a lot of them in my podiatry clinic, and in some cases PEG feeding for severe cases but in adults it's not that straightforward unless you need something specific like physio.
Our local GPs would say yes you probably do have HM but what do you expect me to do about it?
Your best bet is to go onto the hypermobility sites and educate yourself about the syndrome.
Mostly is prevention is better than cure.
When and if you go to a GP about it you need to be very clear what you want them to do about it or they just won't be interested. So in other words symptoms that need to be treated such as oesophageal reflux, splinting or devices from hospital devices department or joint degeneration. If you don't have any symptoms they won't really care.

It does look like you may be hypermobile. As others have said you are best researching and finding things that help you with any pain. Weightlifting and strength fitness works well for me, as does working hard on core strength. This all helps with not overextending.
I spoke to my doctor about possible EDS (it had been mentioned by a hospital consultant about my son) I suffer with many of the symptoms, my doctors exact words were
"It's a made up condition that consultants use when they don't know what to diagnose" he's an asshole but I've had two Dr's respond similarly so, I wouldn't expect much from going to a GP.

Thank you everyone.

As a few of you have mentioned, the reason I would like to know for sure is for prevention of future issues.

I am certain my mum has EDS and she has suffered so much with pain all her life. She would wring her ankle by simply walking. The arches on her feet have collapsed and she now walks on the sides of her feet, she has had so many issues, I really don't want to end up like her. If I knew for sure then I could put things into place to help prevent injury etc. I am 51 and in peri and strength training at this age is well advised, ime however even gentle weight lifting and/or stretching leaves me in a lot of pain and discomfort for weeks after the recovery takes so long. Walking and cycling are the only exercises which doesn't leave me in pain. As I enter menopause I am concerned that I will be at a greater risk of prolapsed etc and I am suffering from a lot of pain in my joints. I have found HRT has made my endometriosis worse so am looking at other ways to help myself.

My 30 year long journey with gut issues have cost me so much both socially and financially and yet her I am still suffering daily, maybe if I understood these issues could possibly be related to EDS or hypermobility I may eventually find some peace with this?

Whatever the outcome it does look as though going privately may be a better option. I don't have a lot of faith in the NHS atm, it's taking 20 odd years to get my endometriosis diagnosis.

That response doesn't surprise me one little bit sadly.

Your probably in pain as your using muscles that you don't use. If you are hypermobile you tend to overuse certain ones and avoid using others- completely unintentionally.

Have to tried aqua fit classes- very low impact. Also lower weights for more reps- and get a few training sessions to ensure absolute correct form and avoid over extensions. If I do a few weights lazily, I can feel it for a week.

Beighton score is fairly outdated as it's not always in those joints. My elbow and knees don't hyperextend at all but I can bend backwards and get my shoulders to feet with no issues.

How is your skin? That's generally linked to EDS. And do you have large reactions to mosquito bites? New evidence about histamine levels and immune reactions.

I have worked with a PT and in a gym, we started with very light weights but it still hurts like crazy, this was 6 months in.

I don't go in chlorinated water much as it causes my skin to react. I do react quite badly to bites and have to use silver plasters to help with the healing. My skin is very soft and delicate.

I do often wonder if my gut issues are related to a histamine reaction of some kind, I also have nasal, throat and mouth issues.

My thumbs will do that. And one of them is also double jointed (bends backwards and forwards). The other one only bends forwards.
DH's thumbs don't bend at all.

Ahh yes, my feet cause me no end of issues!! I often have to strap my toes together because they've over stretched one way!!!
Did you know there is surgery your mum can have on her feet? My mum had the same issues, causing knee and hip pain etc she's had a cage put in her foot to rebuild her arch and they've fused bones together to stop the rolling. It's major surgery but has massively improved her mobility.

Sadly mum has Alzheimer’s and breast cancer so Amy surgery these days is too risky. It’s a shame no one offered her the op years ago, they just prescribed orthotics but they’ve not helped much.