DS’s friend’s phone use is affecting the friendship WWYD?

[TerrorAustralis]

TL;DR DS’s friend is constantly on his phone when they are together and it’s making DS not want to spend time with him. Would you say anything to the parents?

DS has a good friend, let’s call him Jimmy. He’s a nice kid. DS and Jimmy have been great mates since they were 6, they’re now 13. They were in primary together, but now at different schools. I’m friends with Jimmy’s mum too. Not extremely close, but we do socialise a bit and I like her.

They have different rules around technology to us, meaning Jimmy has more access to his phone and social media than DS.

The last few times Jimmy has been over, I’ve noticed he is on his phone a lot. He’s got one ear bud in almost constantly. Combined with the fact that he has some hearing loss, this is a problem. If you don’t see the ear bud, you can be talking to him and he’s got no idea you’re speaking to him. He’s constantly watching Snap reels (or whatever they’re called) or messaging other people.

Jimmy will put his phone away when I ask him to (e.g. during dinner) and he accepts that we don’t allow phones in the bedroom overnight. But as soon dinner is over or they’re awake in the morning, he’s back on the phone.

Last time DS stayed over at his place, Jimmy was talking on the phone until 3am, keeping DS awake too.

The last time he was here, I could sense DS getting a bit fed up. After Jimmy left, DS complained about Jimmy being on his phone all the time and saying they might as well not even spend any time together. They’re due to spend time together again soon, and DS isn’t really keen anymore.

Would you say anything to Jimmy’s mum, or just let it play out? I’d be very sad for their friendship to be lost over this. And I certainly don’t want to say anything to Jimmy’s mum that will make her feel like I’m judging her parenting.

It sound as though Jimmy isn't feeing it any more if he's on his phone all the time they are together. Maybe the friendship has run its course?

I wouldn’t say anything to the parents.

I would teach my dc that they dont have to accept any behaviour. If they feel friend is disrespectful (which he is! I wouldn’t want a friend that behaves like this), then he is entitled to step back and not spend time with them.

Good opportunity to teach them about boundaries, not being taken for granted and expecting respect from others. Even from long time friends.
He also doesn’t have to make drama out of it. Stepping back, saying No thank you to an invite is enough.

@Thepurplecar tbh I dint think it matters why the friend is behaving that way.
Neither the OP nor the friend have any control over that.

The ds can establish boundaries and stop spending time with someone who is constantly on their phone.
They are 13yo, not 3yo or even 8yo

Depends how much they care. As I say if Jimmy is just a tool to entertain the son, then you're right, it doesn't matter - Jimmy isn't fulfilling his end of the bargain, end of.

If it's not solely transactional and they genuinely care about Jimmy, yes I think it Jimmy's needs do matter. I'd want to know what he's getting from the phone that I'm not providing. Maybe then I can offer a solution, or maybe I'll find it easier to accept his phone use.

But you're right - most people don't see beyond what's in it for themselves.

Play date is just a turn of phrase obviously 🙄

Call it what you like, meet up/sleep over/get together
OP already said that her DS effort at trying to talk to his friend didn't work.
Some kids of 13 are still quite emotionally immature and need a bit of support to navigate friendships.

I wouldn't do anything. Let your DS deal with it, he's too old for you to be intervening. He can decide whether he wants to spend time with Jimmy or tell him that he is boring company always being on his phone and stop spending time with him.

Agree with pp that the friendship has probably run its course.

My DS had a similar experience with his former best friend, they were inseparable from age 6 to 12 then went to different high schools, within a year it had fizzled out, his friend would come to us for a sleepover and dick about on his phone, mainly talking to his friends that DS didn’t know. DS was just bored and fed up with it. We stopped organising anything and it just stopped. No drama involved.

It’s not a problem of not seeing what beyond themselves.

Its the fact we are often teaching our dcs to care a lot about the Whys at our detriment because ‘oh poor Jimmy is struggling so we need to give a lot of leeway’

It’s nothing to do about being transactional.

Its the fact that the ds isn’t a therapist for the friend.
It’s the fact that ‘looking at the reason why’ can actually be very invasive for the friend. Why should he tell them? Why thinking that somehow the ds or the OP are in a better or even just a good place to ‘help him’ or ‘understand’ why he behaves like this.
And how can we assume that the friend even has the insight to know why or the maturity to articulate why.

Ofc the ds could also say to him ‘look when I spend time with you, I feel like you’re not really there. It makes me feel lonely when you spend so much time on your phone’.
And he could also have asked him to stop talking during the sleepover because he wanted to sleep.
But the reality is that it requires skills and a maturity that neither the ds nor the friend will have at that age. Most adults don’t managed that sort of conversations! Instead they are told to keep boundaries and step back. Why asking more from our dcs than we can do ourselves?

So the friendship ends, that's what usually happens and it may be the solution. The alternative is to model compassion but as you say, it's not something most adults do or even aspire to do. That's life, sadly. It seems very transactional to me but that may be a difference of perspective and probably why I find people on the whole, disappointing.

Compassion isn’t that though.
You can end a friendship compassionately.
That means you do it knowing and/or acknowledging the issue tye other person might have. But you don’t accept to be badly treated either. You can be kind. You can be loving. And still decide to step back from a situation that is hurtful for you.

Being compassionate does not mean accepting to be treated badly (and in this case the ds is). It means acknowledging the other person suffering and struggles.

I suspect Jimmy doesn't find your DS so interesting anymore. My advice would be to get your DS to think about what the friendship means to him. He may then decide to give it up or to challenge Jimmy about his behaviour.

Teens often lose friendships at this age as they start to find out more about who they are and what they want from a friend. Equally this opens them up to new friendships.

I don't think speaking to Jimmy's mother will achieve anything and might alienate her from you.

Is the phone new? Just wondering if there's a bit of novelty attached to it at the moment.

If not, as others have said, seems the friendship is just drifting as has happened to many at that age as they get new interests etc.

My sister of a similar age has this problem with her friend. She now avoids going there which is sad. Her mum knows what the daughter is like no use mentioning it.

Our mum however would definitely tell us off if we were on our phone ignoring guests.

I would tell Ds that it’s Ok to say ‘there’s no point in me coming to your house, you spend so much time on your phone’

At 13 I’d say nothing, let the friendship fizzle out and say something to the mum if she asks later on what happened and why they don’t meet up anymore.

Your DS needs to tell his mate himself. My DS had a mate that came over and just took a tablet out of his bag & put his feet up on the sofa and started playing a game on it, completely ignoring my DS. My DS just said to him, I wouldn’t have invited you over if I knew you were going to ignore me. His mate put it back in his bag.
They’re older now & still friends.

I didn't expect this thread to get bumped again. I've read through the new replies and there are some odd takes on the situation.

Jimmy isn't ND. I don't believe there's some deep reason for him being on the phone. Like many people these days, he just seems addicted to the dopamine hit of consant social media scrolling. His phone isn't new, he's had one for years. When he was awake talking 'til 3am it wasn't just to anyone, it was his girlfriend. I didn't think that was relevant, but it wasn't just any other friend. (Being on the phone all night to your GF/BF seems to be a bit of a thing these days. I find it weird, but that's another thread.)

When he's not on the phone, the boys get along as well as they always have and have a lot to talk about, and they have fun messing about. When DH & I talk to him he's articulate and engaged and will happily chat to us.

That said, their friendship is evolving. But just because they're not as close as they once were, I don't think that means the friendship should just be discarded.

The next planned meet up is DS invited to Jimmy's place. I'm going to encourage him to go and say something about the phone use if it's the same. If it's still a problem then we'll look at reducing contact. As mentioned in my OP, Jimmy's mum and I get on and socialise a bit. Over the years we have enjoyed spending quite a bit of time together as families, so I'm not sure how I'd manage that part of it if DS decides he doesn't want to spend time with Jimmy anymore.

When he was awake talking 'til 3am it wasn't just to anyone, it was his girlfriend. I didn't think that was relevant, but it wasn't just any other friend. (Being on the phone all night to your GF/BF seems to be a bit of a thing these days. I find it weird, but that's another thread.

This is definitely not a thing!! Who
letsvyheir kids do this? No 13 year old should have their phone overnight, that’s poor parenting imho. If DS12 went somewhere and this happened I would be v unhappy. No wonder Jimmy has no boundaries or self awareness.

It seems that the relationship is doomed because Jimmy is more interested in his phone.
I would comment to his parents that you notice Jimmy prefers to play on his phone rather than with your son.

I would also have some rules about phones not in bedrooms. If Jimmy stays over tell his parents that in your home phones go into a box in the living room after six o'clock at night until after breakfast and that he will need to abide by the same rules as your own children..

Your DS is 13 and this is not a safety issue, so you need to let him manage his own friendship.

If your DS is telling you he’s bothered, offer to talk through some approaches he can take. He may want to brainstorm and practice some things to say to Jimmy, and you can let him know that if Jimmy’s phone use is making hangout time less fun then that time may be better invested in other friendships (but don’t push this, just state it as an option for DS to decide on). And if your DS decides it’s not worth bringing anything up with Jimmy or changing anything then support him in that too. Keep calmly & consistently enforcing the same phone/device rules around meals and bedtime that you do for your DS and any other teen in the house, but don’t start tying to manipulate the situation beyond that.

The all night phone thing was at Jimmy’s house. He knows at our house, the phones stay downstairs overnight, but he knows where it is if he “needs it”. (He never needs it, of course.)

It's definitely a thing among my sisters peer group, has been for the past few years. They literally have 'sleepovers' over the phone. They could be doing random stuff but all have their phone going in the group.

If it was me I'd advise my son to cancel the current plans and not make any more and just spend time with other friends.
If Jimmy asks him about it, he can say I don't really want to spend time sitting watching you on your phone. There doesn't seem any point hanging out.

If Jimmy doesn't care then your son knows Jimmy really isn't that fussed about being his friend.

Just sit down with your DS and have a chat. Say to him that sometimes people's interests change, friendships just fade away or people grow apart, and that is fine. If the friendship isn't the way he would like it to be, then he doesn't have to be friends with this lad any more.

Aw I feel sad for your son, as he clearly likes his friend a lot, and the friendship just isn’t the same anymore due to this annoying phone habit.

However, I think they’re too old for you to be saying anything to his mum. He is old enough to navigate his own friendships. When I was in year 8 (aged 12-13) I naturally/organically changed friendship groups. I started to realise I was outgrowing my two best friends, we had different hobbies, and I started hanging out with other girls. I know that’s a different situation, but just wanted to point out that I did this by myself, I didn’t need my mum getting involved and speaking to anyone else’s mum. It’s normal, it happens. Hopefully your son has some other friends he can start enjoying spending time with!