Which professions do you think offer good prospects, pay and progression for bright young women?

[LesFlamandes]

I’m asking for DD, but also more generally. In helping our daughters to think about future carers, I think we do not always talk enough about the importance of decent pay and future work/ life balance. It’s all very well to ‘do what you love’ but not if it won’t buy you a house or if you have to quit once you have kids.

DD is 15 and is now thinking quite seriously about next steps. Her strengths are in maths, physics and computing but she is a decent (dyslexic) all-rounder. Several of the professions she is considering require specific A-levels for the degree courses so she needs to choose carefully.

At the moment her interests lie in electrical/ mechanical engineering or actuarial work/ economics/ maybe investment banking. She has also considered medical physics which sounds fascinating, but she is unsure about a career limited to the NHS, because of limited pay and work prospects. Her only red line is, ‘not law.’

DD knows she hopes to raise a family. She has seen that several of our family friends have had to step back from their careers as the balance was impossible, so this is also on her mind. She wants to live in London or another big city.

What professions (maybe you own?) do you think offer good pay, prospects and balance for young women, and will continue to do so?

I’m not really after free career advice (well, maybe a bit), a wider discussion would be really interesting.

For those that are suggesting she thinks about being an actuary, I would worry that type of job would disappear with the advances in AI. I admittedly know very little about that job but I do think it would be very vulnerable to AI.

My daughter is going into Big 4 London with a First Class Degree in Biosciences from an excellent university. She is really keen and happy but I’m worried that the starting pay is so appalling and it will take years to make a decent salary. It seems really low compared to Law or as others have said pharma even sales. How long does it take to get to about £60,000 London? The starting salaries seem really low, she will barely be able to rent a room and have much money left over for eating.I have been seriously trying to get her to look at Law instead but she has a clear vision of what she wants and it’s Big 4 with the ACA etc.

Law isn't always that well paid . Nor are epidemiologists.

Finance and engineering are well paid but they can be damaging to the planet. Engineering is still male dominated but there are womens networks to join for support

Pharmaceutical industry is concentrating on medication where they can make the most money rather than medicines that would help the most people or future proof our health

Tradespeople can make good earnings and there is a great demand for reliable ones

Pharmaceutical industry is concentrating on medication where they can make the most money rather than medicines that would help the most people or future proof our health

Money is the number one for most industries I suppose but I work for a pharmaceutical company that does both broad spectrum medicines and orphan drugs (those for rare diseases). There needs to be both.

Construction, second only in pay to the finance industry, crying out for more women’ very fast progression, typically global firms will allow her to travel if she wants to as projects are based all over the world. All qualifications paid. Pay and bonuses amazing. The design teams and any other teams can work remotely.

@Noras although starting salaries are not high, they increase quickly and in 3 years when she qualifies, she will either be on £60k in her own firm, or able to move to another company to get that sort of salary.

Law would bring a much higher salary both at the start and when qualified, but she'd be working around the clock, and have absolutely no social life/have to cancel commitments at the last minute.

I would second this, DS just graduated as a Quantity surveyor and at least 1/2 of his intake were female - all the intake (who wanted) have secured grad jobs.

You've had some good info and advice here.

I'd encourage her to think about not just what interests and motivates her, but also what her personality is like and what type of environments she thrives in.

I'm extroverted and chatty but doing sales /business development brings me out in hives. I'm intelligent and intellectual and love reading but a job that was all/mostly solo work would drive me potty. I now know I have ADHD - short deadlines/having to work in the moment (like teaching, ICU doctor, or barrister) suit me from that point of view. I also know now that I would have benefited temperamental from gaining a difficult technical qualification/deep body of knowledge to build from rather than working in the type of role where it is mostly about how you marshal people and resources to get things done and less about the subject matter.

These are things we don't necessarily know about ourselves at school or university and academic study won't help clarify that much. Good work experience, ectra-curricular activities and open-mindedness can help us work it out quicker.

It’s hard to say as London salaries are different to the regions, and starting salaries have moved on a lot since I started, but my salary went broadly as follows:

Starting: £20k
On qualification: £35k
On promotion to manager (3 years post qual): £50k (I think £60k for this role in London would be easily achievable, and probably outside of London too especially if she is willing to move employers for a pay rise)
On promotion to senior manager (5 years post qual): £62k

So I did within about 6 years, but I will imagine someone coming through now will start higher and will be paid more at each bracket.

That also excludes bonuses which have ranged from £0 to £15k annually.

IT or software development.
Lots of money. Lots of jobs available (massive shortage all over Europe) - so easy to get a visa if wanted.
Lots of flexibility as you just need a computer.

I wanted DD to become an investment banker, city trader or financial analyst. She would have loved the lifestyle, hectic lifestyle, posh clothes & luxury lifestyle opportunities. I'm not sure OP's DD is extroverted enough to love all that, though.

Construction. We're crying out for all disciplines. Many roles are now being trained as graduate apprentices - so they finish with a degree with four years experience, and no student debt. One of my former trainees has just accepted a new role at £65,000, and they're not 30 yet. In Scotland.

@LesFlamandes would you be willing to share anything of your career path as your role might be of interest to some of our dcs? My suggestion is civil service or public sector. The people you work with (I work for a niche part of the public sector) are some of the brightest in the country and in my place of work they are super kind and collaborative and so so supportive. Mega flexible and well paid with tonnes of holiday. I really recommend it to anyone - and at my place men are treated equally in terms of parental leave so it is really great for men too.

There are a lot of white collar jobs mentioned here that will be (severely) impacted by AI - acturaries and software development for two.

Maybe consider NHS management. Hugely varied with all kinds of different roles and opportunities to move across areas within management which might suit someone with a range of skills. Very quick progression for bright people- the NHS grad scheme is a brilliant starting point, possible to be on £60-70k by mid-late 20s following grad scheme. Progression through to VSM roles which pay >£100k but depends what you consider high paying as there is a ceiling around £200k unless looking to work in national roles running the whole NHS. Obviously perfect for families as great Mat leave pay and conditions, good job security, great pension... and of course the benefit that it helps people and society so is very rewarding from a moral point of view, not just making money for a corporate machine.

Worth a look into!

Accounting, but there are many routes in. She could do any of those subjects as degrees and then join a firm. Or do a business/accountancy degree, get a starter industry job and do the exams at night. I'm 25 years down the road, accountant in a big tech firm. Loads of working mothers here. Well paid, decent hours, flexibility. Lots of working mothers in leadership roles. Great benefits. We got here through many routes. I hated studying accounting but love working in it in industry. Basically solving business problems under the framework of accounting.

I work in IT and there are so many options. Full technical IT roles, Project Management, PMO, Business Analyst.

Most companies now offer very flexible working / hybrid or remote which work great if you want a family. It pays well and offers good benefits.

https://calnewport.com/the-most-important-piece-of-career-advice-you-probably-never-heard-2/

Cal Newport (IT professor, writes a lot about deep work) gives good advice on orienting away from what you are 'passionate' about and towards what type of lifestyle you want to have.

I'm not utterly convinced, I do a job that plays to both, but I'm prepared to pay a financial penalty to have the job I want, so perhaps it's true that I'm happy with my lifestyle!

I don't know many happy lawyers, I don't know why, even the ones I know who make lots of money, it's an odd one.

Hedge funds. Not enough women go in to these

I would definitely not recommend the civil service, the pay and hours are terrible and with successive Tory governments over the past 14 years stripping back and cutting back the jobs being done the workload is objectively about double from what it used to be from what was already a high pressure job.
Labour may be paying slightly better now as announced today, in an attempt to shore up the brain drain, but it’s still paid well below the cost of inflation, living and housing. The net effect is giving people more responsibility than they can manage, mistakes are made a lot, training is not invested in, burnout is immense and the culture is incredibly back bitey because everyone is under such pressure. Legal challenges to the work done are frequent and the stress levels are enormous.

This! She can't know at 15 that she definitely wants to have kids, and it's not guaranteed anyway (make sure she's aware of this).

The other thing I'd get her to think carefully about is whether she really wants to be tied to having to work in London.

So many people talk about how their job only exists in London so they can't move away but also they can't afford housing, live somewhere smaller than they'd like or have to commute for over an hour each way etc and, while the pay might be better, it might need years of struggle before this pays off in the form building up a large amount of housing equity or other assets.

Many jobs will be available in/around other large cities where she'll likely be able to buy a house much earlier and have more choice about where she lives even if her salary is lower than it is in London.

Aeronautics engineering, lots of opportunities to work abroad but maybe a bit limited by site, particularly for anyone not so keen to work in defence such as for BAE.

Pharmaceuticals

Medical physics/ nuclear medicine

Anything financey

I'm an actuary. The exams are a slog but it's well paid and part time work is now more commonplace - compared to 26 years ago when I went 3 days a week due to raising a family.

The only issue I would say is that jobs are only in certain areas; mainly but not exclusively in London and most do require some presence in the office therefore it's not very mobile if she wants to live elsewhere in the future.

Accountant firms are everywhere and the training is less onerous, but the pay is on average less so this is something to bear in mind.

Actuarial science is a good shout given she's mathsy - actuaries have better work-life balance than other similar professions like law or medicine. Accountancy also opens a huge number of doors.