Any year 2 teachers around? SATs and attainment levels

[Coffeedreaming]

Hello just want some clarity on a few things and wondering whether I should speak to the teacher.

As an aside I always get the feeling the teacher doesn’t like my child although I’m unclear why as if we’ve had to talk about any issues at school there’s a lot of them doing similar things eg not listening at break time etc. (A whole other issue is I think there are different standards for girls and boys - my daughter has been told off for not listening and boys are barely being told off for hitting people etc)

Anyway back to the school report which has come home this week.

My child scored
Maths - 115
Reading 115
GPS 112

And yet in her report the teacher has only scored her GDS on reading and scored her WTS+ for writing and EXS for maths.

These don’t add up to me and I can’t help but feel it’s because the teacher seems not to like her.

Do I just need to let it go and focus on next year

What do the abbreviations mean? Also a yr 2 mum.

GPS - Grammar, punctuation and spelling
GDS - Working to Greater Depth
WTS - Working towards Expected Standard
EXS - At the expected standard

Writing is not reading.

My son is older and is hitting wildly different levels for spag, reading, spelling and writing.

I thought that 116 was the magic number too (though I could be wrong).

Personally it's BETTER for your child to be slightly under the greater depth level at the end of year 2. The school gets points for getting children to go up a level between year 2 and SATS at yr6. They will focus resources on the children most likely to do this and on the lowest achievers. So if your child is bang in the middle of achieving target for their age or already hitting at greater depth well they are less likely to get attention from teachers. As much as it sucks.

I would be happy with that at the end of year 2. It's a good place to be at.

SATs were not a legal requirement this year. Teachers use them to back up their teacher assessments so they are only a guide. In my experience it would be unusual for a child to be greater depth in reading and working towards in writing. That is quite a discrepancy between the two. Usually a child would be greater depth in reading and then either great depth or expected in writing.

We were told 115 was the maximum score - is that not true?

Yes i was concerned about the discrepancy hence why wondering if we should speak to the teacher.

Highest scaled score is 115. 100 and above is expected.

My son is working towards in writing and greater depth for reading! (He's year 4 now).

Sorry it's definitely possible.

Well likely be getting a tutor for her in the next year or two as we’re smack bang in 11 plus/grammar land and loads of people have already started tutoring their kids - including many at private primary schools

Yes I would just have a word with the teacher and get some clarity.

115 is the highest possible score. It’s really odd that she hasn’t got GDS across the board with those scores. I would ask. But let go of any ‘teacher doesn’t like my kid’ stuff - it’s not usually at all the case, I’d guess that she surprised them in the SATs and hasn’t consistently demonstrated that she is GDS across the term. The WTS score is odd - definitely ask them. Could be a fuck up.

Yeh definitely possible to have a large gap between reading and writing but usually if there's a specific need in writing such as fine motor control or attention difficulties etc

Unfortunately it’s definitely the case. We’ve been called into school to discuss her behaviour on a few occasions and both times the teacher couldn’t seem to articulate what she’d done particularly wrong and when asked about the others in the “argument” agreed that they were equally to blame?!

and didn’t get this feeling from year 1 or reception teachers.

Just seems odd as I’ve seen all her writing in an open day recently and looks really good to me. Has written short stories etc and had one put in the school newsletter

Teacher assessment is based on what teachers observe throughout the year. A child can pull it out of the bag in a test, which is fab for them, but the teacher may still feel that child is working at an expected level. Writing is entirely different to any of these, including GPS. It is also only teacher assessed. GPS scores and writing assessment often don’t correlate.
There is no harm asking the teacher to fully explain.

There are pretty strict descriptors for writing, it's not a general feeling. The standard for writing is really quite high. It's worth looking into but the number of GD writers is much lower than GD readers.

DS had issues which cropped up right at the end of yr2 into yr3. He had massive problems with concentration and completing work. The teacher was saying he could do it but he wasn't producing the evidence she needed to tick all the boxes. She knew he was bright and should be getting harder marks but wasn't.

He was referred for and ADHD assessment right at the end of yr3 which we are still waiting on.

Yr4 has been better. We've been working with school on all this and they have taken it seriously even though it's unusual to do for a child who is at the higher end of ability. They have recognised that he hasn't been matching his potential though.

His writing is still way below where it should be but he has made a lot of progress from where he was.

I would talk to the new teacher at the start of the year - it's probably not worth doing with the current teacher at this stage.

Find out where they need to improve and how you can work with the school rather than going with a confrontational 'the last teacher didn't like my child'.

It sounds like something more is going on.

If you are in grammar school land this will be particularly important to address.

So the kids who are doing well and performing above expectations are basically ignored from Y3 up?

Oh dear. That explains a lot.

Not ignored. But they don't add to the school metrics and targets.

Agree it's kinda unhelpful.

Sats at year 2 are only 1 measure of attainment. Teachers then assess the child’s level based on their work throughout the year.

An example would be telling the time. To get greater depth using the teacher assessment framework (TAF) the child needs to tell the time to the nearest 5 minutes. The test did not have a question related to this. So, it’s totally possible for them to score full marks and only get expected for maths. There are other similar objectives.

SATs are not used to inform writing judgements.

They weren’t compulsory this year, but some schools still do internal moderation and continue to use the TAF. It’s highly unlikely that the teacher marked your child down because they didn’t like them.

Hi, year 2 teacher here (30 years teaching primary).

In Year 2, the SATS were optional this year, but many schools have used them as an end of year assessment tool (simply because the other assessment providers, such as NFER and PIRA) have not yet produced end of year tests for Year 2 ( they will be ready by next year apparently). This is because last year was the 'last year' of statutory testing for Year 2.

On to your question: the Year 2 SATS don't (and never have) tested for Greater Depth...this is a perpetual bone of contention and 'mistake' made by some people (teachers too!) There's always been this 'magical' score of 115, which some schools insist means that the child is at GD (sadly my current school is one of these such places!! 😪🤦‍♀️)

This is NOT TRUE (although of course it's a strong indicator that the child is hitting many of the GD statements). Year 2 SATS only tests for the EXP 'end of key stage' criteria. To be GD, the child has to show that they are hitting all the targets in the 'GD Statements' in the Teacher Assessment Framework (commonly referred to as the Year 2 TAF).

I've had children scoring really highly on a particular SAT paper, but I wouldn't put them as GD...as they simply haven't met all the GD criteria in the TAF. To clarify further...we have to be able to evidence EVERY statement, it's not a 'best fit'. Every statement must be evidenced in their books/work.

You can google Year 2 TAF and you'll see the criteria 👌🏻

Hope this helps OP 👍

I don’t want to come across as a pain to the teacher and may not even be worth it now we’re right at the end of the year.

I know my child is extremely bright - I’m not being a smug mum - she just is.

Eg was reading chapter books at age 4 and knew all the planets at age 3 etc.

Ours were out of 140? Maybe different LA but my little one scored high 135+ across the board and got above expected on maths/reading and at expected on writing.

Thank you that does help.

But it’s the discrepancy with working towards expectations on writing that has surprised me

Unfortunately that was our experience. State till 8 is a thing for a reason.....