Place names: Animal, Vegetable or Mineral

[Kovus]

E.g;

Oxford
Sevenoaks
Ingoldmells

Post one or more. Can be foreign, but needs to be reasonably well-known!

Chipping Warden

Chip - vegetable
Chipping(s) - mineral
Warden - a human role so animal?

Do I win? 😁

Swanage
Ramsgate
Borehamwood
Shepherd's Bush
Pitstone
Stony Stratford

Oh blimey, I think I've done it with Borehamwood

Ore - mineral
Ham - animal
Wood - vegetable

@Kovus ????

N Ireland

Ahoghill
Belleek
Coalisland

Sorry if any of these ones have been done as I skipped ahead and am rather proud of answers...:

Camelford
Sevenoaks
Leadenham

Evening folks, OK this is a dubious one....

Camberwick Green

I can see all - animal, vegetable and mineral.

Amber - mineral?
Green - vegetable (as in 'greens')?
Berwick - animal (Berwick Swan).

Not in the right order. Also not a real place but a fictitious place. Am I allowed it? Or stretching it too much?

Impressed. But we need to look at the 'animal' part. I have found these definitions:

a living thing that can move and eat and react to the world through its senses, esp. of sight and hearing
Cambridge Dictionary

With few exceptions, animals consume organic material, breathe oxygen, have myocytes and are able to move, can reproduce sexually, and grow from a hollow sphere of cells, the blastula, during embryonic development.
Wikipedia

To be an animal, you must be a living thing and you must be made up of many cells (multicellular). This criterion alone eliminates the bacteria and some other living things called archaea and others called protists. Oh and by the way, not only must you be multicellular, but you have to be made up of cells that have their insides bound up in membranes (these are called eukaryotic cells). Bacteria and archaea have cells that lack these internal membranes, and are not multicellular, so they definitely do not fit the definition of an animal.
California Academy of Science

The above indicate that an animal must be living and must have agency. Ham, as we know it, comes from a pig which has been slaughtered that has died and at that moment of death, under the definition, it ceased to be an animal. Therefore, I do not see that Ham could be regarded as an animal, on the established definition.

However, it could be the case that a farmer or butcher or a country person might see a pig running round a paddock and observe "Nice ham there" in which case this suggests the notion of pig and ham being interchangeable and as such a ham is a pig and is an animal. But I have never heard of it.

However, if the farmer, butcher or country person muttered " Nice bit of ham on that pig" the conclusion might be different. This would indicate the ham is not the pig. The ham is on the pig and therefore capable of partition from the animal, which would typically be on death. Reading back to the definition of an animal being alive, as a minimal requirement, we have some difficulty in establishing that ham, or a ham even, is an animal.

The conclusion therefore is that 'ham' is not an animal and therefore Borehamwood does not meet the five star standard.

It is obiter that, had the place been named 'Boarhamwood' while an animal would have been established, the mineral definition may not. However, had the place been named 'Borehamsterwood' a different outcome may have been achieved.

This ruling is open to appeal by 22:00 hours this evening. An appeal may be brought by Leeverarch, or any person acting on their behalf.

But @Kovus have I won? 🤣🤣

I would say that amber isn't a mineral, as it's organic in origin so its internal structure isn't that of a mineral. Very nice try though @Kovus !

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats

I do sincerely apologise for overlooking your original post. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. My initial observations are;

'Chip' is part of a potato but, as a part, is not universally recognised as a vegetable - see the case of @Leeverarch above which suggests caution in the case of partition of an object into its subsequently defined components. Also note that 'hip' is a bone, which on death and decomposition becomes 'mineralised'.

Chipping would fall and I need say no more because the 'hip' is established as a mineral on the same principle above.

Warden is a role but I am prepared to accept it merely on the basis that warden conjures up the image of a human being which meets the definition of an animal.

The conclusion is you have met two definitions:

A - Allowed
V - Declined
M - Allowed

You have the right of appeal by 22:00 this evening.

Any appeal must be heard by MNHQ on the basis of a conflict of interest - which is that I lived in Chipping Warden for 3 years many years ago. Not made up - but not saying exactly where or when.... 😂

(Horrid what HS2 has done - especially at Wormleighton).

I graciously accept your judgment @AdaColeman

@Kovus My appeal is as follows:

All things (including ham) must fit into one of the three categories.

Ham is organic matter.

Minerals are inorganic therefore it is not a mineral.

Vegetarians, vegans and other herbivores will not eat it, therefore it is not a vegetable either.

I rest my case.

💼

@leeverarch

You must show what Ham is, not what Ham is not. Burden of proof etc falls on you.

A cannibal may eat a vegetarian but that still makes them a cannibal, even if they do not feel as bloated in the morning.

@Kovus Once all other alternatives have been ruled out, then the only thing which remains has to be the answer.

I also found this in my lovely dictionary:

Ham - an actor who rants and overacts; an amateur radio operator.

Both of which, if I am not mistaken, are undeniably human and presumably alive.

Please take notice that the following appeal will take place at 22:00 with judgment published soon after.

In the case of:

Leeverarch -v- The Institute of Common Sense ex parte Mumsnet HQ Derailment of Thread Department.
Re: Place names: Animal, Vegetable or Mineral - Whether 'ham' is an animal - definition of an actor who is a 'luvvie' - whether CB radio enthusiasts are 'hams' - to determine whether there is a case to answer.

No witnesses will be required.

In defence of the chip's vegetable status.

Thesis 1.
If we regard a chip as a 'component' of a potato than a broccoli floret would have to be regarded as a component of a broccoli.
According to the NHS website a plate of broccoli florers counts as one of your 5 a day. Ergo broccoli florets are still regarded as vegetable even though by your definition they are only components of a vegetable.
So - what is sauce for the floret is sauce for the chip.

Thesis 2.
If a chip isn't vegetable what is it?
Animal? (definitely not if cooked in vegetable oil)
Mineral? (definitely not, unless left to fossilise)
And it certainly isn't abstract - I can identify a chip at 20 paces.

And I'm in before 22:00 😁

SUMMARY JUDGMENT
Leeverarch (Appellant) -v- The Institute of Common Sense ex parte Mumsnet HQ Derailment of Thread Department - Regis.

The following appeals were heard:

First: "Once all other alternatives have been ruled out, then the only thing which remains has to be the answer".

This comment establishes only the impossibilities. In doing so, it does not discharge the 'balance of probabilities' required in this case.

Second: "Ham - an actor who rants and overacts".

No modern incidence of the use of the word 'ham' in this usage can be found in modern literature or entertainment. However, the term 'ham-fisted' is still in modern use and is defined as 'the attempt by an actor to use their hand to cut pork; see Daniel Day Lewis as Bill The Butcher in Gangs of New York (2002)". See also, speech by the actor Felicity Kendall in "Pig's Lib", The Good Life, Episode 1.4, 25 April 1975, while saving Pinky and Perky from Margo's abattoir arrangement, due to the failed attempt by Gerry (1975)". As it is the actor who is 'ham-fisted' this indicates an actor is a 'ham'.

An actor who is a ham is therefore an animal.

Third: "CB radio enthusiasts are 'hams' ". Conclusive proof has been presented in which the following definition is in common usage: In 1909, Robert A. Morton reported overhearing an amateur radio transmission which included the comment: "Say, do you know the fellow who is putting up a new station out your way? I think he is a ham."[1] However, the term did not gain widespread usage in the United States until around 1920, after which it slowly spread to other English-speaking countries. The term is still in modern usage.

An amateur radio transmitter is a ham and therefore a ham is an animal.

Summary

We find in favour of the Appellant. The Appellant has no need to resubmit their post of 14:24.

I only vaguely remember the rules of the old radio quiz programme Animal Vegetable or Mineral, but I'm sure they counted the origin of an item. So a ham sandwich would have been animal and vegetable.
This widened the range of possibilities for items and answers, so perhaps something to consider @Kovus, but only you know the rules of your game @Kovus!

Stars will not be awarded in the following case:

Leeverarch (Appellant) -v- The Institute of Common Sense ex parte Mumsnet HQ Derailment of Thread Department - Regis;

Pending the hearing before 12:00 (noon) on 13 July 2024 of the following appeal;

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats (Appellant) -v- The Institute of Common Sense ex parte Mumsnet HQ Derailment of Thread Department - Regis

The court notes that the Appellant's original claim supersedes Leeverarches claim by just three minutes this afternoon (14:21).

Adjourned.

SUMMARY JUDGMENT

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats (Appellant) -v- The Institute of Common Sense ex parte Mumsnet HQ Derailment of Thread Department - Regis

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats has appealed at 21:45 on 12 July their claim that a chip is a vegetable, notwithstanding that a chip is a segment of a potato tuber usually cooked in oil and salted. The question is whether a potato chip is still a potato or whether it is mere potato or 'potato matter'.

The annual gross retail value of the grocery sector is approaching £250 billion. J Sainsbury plc is a retailer established over 150 years ago and now operates approximately 1,500 stores across the UK. In the year to 3 April 2024, its turnover was £32,700,045,018.43. It is very clear that J Sainsbury plc is a company that gets things right (apart from closing their fish counters and never bothering to reopen them, but that is not relevant to this matter).

In the frozen food section of their stores, one can find many varieties of potato, cut into different thicknesses, lengths and shapes. There are curly chips, thick chip-shop style chips, chips with skin on, chips that have been cut into a crinkled pattern, chips towards the back of the freezer that have escaped out of a burst bag (near some spilled frozen peas) and very normal looking chips that one might, for example, dip into one’s runny egg yolk (aisle 14).

ASML Holdings is a Dutch company with a similar size turnover to Sainsbury but has a market capitalisation almost 70 times larger. It is a manufacturer and global exporter of chips, though these are the plastic and electronic computer sort that would not meet the definition of ‘vegetable’ though would possibly satisfy the criterion of ‘mineral’ due to various components being sourced from quarries around the world. The products of ASML are therefore not of much help in this appeal.

Turning back to J Sainsbury plc, above the frozen food sections in almost all of their stores are helpful signs in orange and white, hanging from the ceiling, that guide consumers to the groceries they are looking for. For example, if looking for Starbursts, one is guided to the product by a large orange sign that says ‘Confectionary’. Another example would be a frozen chicken, of the type often claimed on MN that feeds a family of 12 for over two weeks, which appears under the orange sign saying ‘Poultry’. It is clear from this signage and descriptions that Starbursts are confectionary, and that chicken is poultry.

Above the chips section of all J Sainsbury plc supermarkets are signs saying ‘Frozen vegetables’, a term which is intended to cover not only processed potatoes, but processed swede, broccoli, carrots and other forms of vegetables. J Sainsbury plc would not be one of the largest retailers in the UK today if it got its product descriptions wrong.

The right conclusion that has to be reached is therefore that frozen processed potato products described as chips are indeed vegetables. By the same rule, so are waffles, hash-browns and those pointless tubs of ready mashed potatoes.

**Appeal allowed.

Rule Change
Following the rule change at 08:33 on 12 July 2024, an inconsistency has been noted in the operation of the rules;

• 5 stars for the first place name to contain all of Animal, Vegetable and Mineral.

• 10 stars to get all three in a single place name but in the right order.

The awarding of 5 stars to only the first poster to find a place name with all three components, but to award 10 stars to all posters who can place the three components in the correct order of animal, vegetable and mineral, is not conducive to promotion of the thread. Therefore the first rule shall be changed retrospectively with the omission of the words 'the first' and the substitution of 'any'.

It follows therefore that the following stars are now awarded:

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

@leeverarch

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Huzzah - fame at last 🤣

Likewise 😁

Well done.

The hunt goes on for the 10 Star champions............

I have a road atlas in the car.... give me a few hours and I might be back!!!

Oh, and thank you @Kovus for your exemplary judicial skills.
grovels shamelessly