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Ds helper at school. Ds stressed and upset.

89 replies

Ds8and9 · 10/07/2024 07:20

So my son is 9. He has autism and learning difficulties. He has an ehcp. One of the things he finds hard is to take in information/instructions. He's working at year 1 level. The ehcp says he's to be given extra time to take things in etc. He's also meant to have a sort of 121. It's not strictly a 121 but would normally be on the table ds is one with a few others . That's how it was when he was in year 3 and he was really happy.

But ds has told me . That his helper hardly ever sits with him or helps him. He said she's hardly ever in the class and always going of to the dinner hall or to do something else. But I don't know if this is true as ds has no concept of time. I did mention it to senco once . And his helper then spoke to me and said M is doing really well. I wish I could spend more time with him. That's the only time she has ever communicated with me since last September.

Ds has recently told me that when he's been told what to do his teacher went away for a bit. Came back to check om ds . And shouted at him because he had not started his work. His ehcp says he needs things explainer to him in a simple way. And time to take in what's been said.

Ds also told me that his teacher said to him M it's about time you started doing things yourself . This was when ds was asked to get was certain book out of his desk but came back with the wrong one..

When he was in year 3 his helper was fantastic he was always with him. Would keep me updated. Explain things clearly to ds .

With ds and some of the tomes that have been said o have just said to him never mind. You Bern finished soon abd get a new teacher in September.

I get stuck what to do . I don't want to over protect ds. Also things are not always what they seem. I'm not sure about saying much to the school because I doubt they are going to say yep we spent minimal time with him . And ignored his EHCP.

I'm lt sure if there's anything I can do / say to maje sure year 5 is better when he starts in September.

OP posts:
Whinge · 10/07/2024 07:41

The ehcp says he's to be given extra time to take things in etc. He's also meant to have a sort of 121. It's not strictly a 121 but would normally be on the table ds is one with a few others

What does his EHCP say with regards to the support he's supposed to receive? You say he's meant to have a 121, but also not strictly a 121. If the EHCP is vague when it comes to what support he's supposed to have, then the helper is going to be used for the child / class that needs them most at that time. This isn't great for your DS, but is unfortunately common when provision isn't quantified.

Your DS EHCP should be specific, and it should be clear from reading section F who, what, when and how long, in relation to each element of provision.

Have you had an annual review, and what was discussed when you raised concerns about the lack of support and how much DS struggling?

Trainham · 10/07/2024 07:53

If his ECHP says 121 speak to teacher / head about it and say 121 is for your son. Yonks again when my son got his statement as it was called back then the first think the head said to me ' oh good another helper for the class' . I put her straight and told her I didn't fight for this to help other children. This is to help my son with his education.
Her face was a picture but his 121 was there just for him. I constantly checked this was the case.
Often the case they see it as an extra helper for the class not the one child.
Getting the ECHP was probably a battle ,this is the next challenge. Good luck.

Ds8and9 · 10/07/2024 07:54

Whinge · 10/07/2024 07:41

The ehcp says he's to be given extra time to take things in etc. He's also meant to have a sort of 121. It's not strictly a 121 but would normally be on the table ds is one with a few others

What does his EHCP say with regards to the support he's supposed to receive? You say he's meant to have a 121, but also not strictly a 121. If the EHCP is vague when it comes to what support he's supposed to have, then the helper is going to be used for the child / class that needs them most at that time. This isn't great for your DS, but is unfortunately common when provision isn't quantified.

Your DS EHCP should be specific, and it should be clear from reading section F who, what, when and how long, in relation to each element of provision.

Have you had an annual review, and what was discussed when you raised concerns about the lack of support and how much DS struggling?

Edited

I get that its not a strict 121 that's why I said sort of . And yes she's also the TA. I think its the extreme in year 3 he had lots of help. His helper was fantastic. This year it seems he's had very little help . I will check section F soon as I get home .

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Sirzy · 10/07/2024 07:57

What is the exact wording in section f of his plan? That’s what really matters here. If it just says things like “high level of support” then they can argue they are providing that.

If the plan in its current format isn’t meeting needs then you can ask for it to be changed either at annual review or calling an emergency review.

Hugesunflower · 10/07/2024 07:58

What is the actually wording on the ECHP? This is really important.

You need to talk to the teacher about how much support he is currently getting and if you don’t think it’s enough/ they can’t improve it then you need to call an emergency review and get the wording tightened up so it is more specific eg 15 hours if TA support a week or if you think he needs 1:1 then you will need to push for that.

Oldcroneandthreewitches · 10/07/2024 08:00

Trainham · 10/07/2024 07:53

If his ECHP says 121 speak to teacher / head about it and say 121 is for your son. Yonks again when my son got his statement as it was called back then the first think the head said to me ' oh good another helper for the class' . I put her straight and told her I didn't fight for this to help other children. This is to help my son with his education.
Her face was a picture but his 121 was there just for him. I constantly checked this was the case.
Often the case they see it as an extra helper for the class not the one child.
Getting the ECHP was probably a battle ,this is the next challenge. Good luck.

I agree with this!

The school use them as helpers and spread the staff out. It’s not fair.

MuggleMe · 10/07/2024 08:25

I expect your EHCP is like my daughter's, it should specify the help your son gets from the TA, they don't usually do 1-2-1s any more. If he's not receiving that support, you need to complain.

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 11:21

You need to look at the wording of section F of the EHCP. It sounds like the wording could be vague and woolly. If that is the case, it is unenforceable and you should request an early review in order to improve it. If the wording isn’t woolly and vague but is detailed, specified and quantified, it can be enforced and you should speak to the headteacher and the LA (it is the LA who is ultimately responsible for the provision).

they don't usually do 1-2-1s any more.

This is what LAs and some schools would like you to believe, but it isn’t true and no LA should have a blanket policy like this.

Ds8and9 · 10/07/2024 11:38

People keep saying about the 121 one comment I said this is why I wrote sort of 121. I'm awear it's mot a 100% 121 . That why I put sort of .

OP posts:
Cantileveredy · 10/07/2024 11:38

I feel that there is no incentive for a school to push a child who is behind to get into working at y3 level. As if they stay in ks1 standard they dont sit sats/they dont count.
As at least one of dd classmates in y6 didnt sit them so must have been y2 level. I findi t hard to believe the child should have been so far behind after 7 years at that school.

Op i would be considering what you will do for secondary. As even with 2 years progress would he only be y3 level?

Ds8and9 · 10/07/2024 11:41

Here is a copy and paste of section f .

Communication and Interaction

(F) Special Educational Provision above quality first teaching.
Provision

• Max will join a speech and language group run by the speech and language therapist for a block of therapy to work on language, speech and communication skills. Outcomes and recommendations should also be implemented by school.
• Lego therapy would be a good way to help Max in his communication with peers in a structured session. This builds on his love of Lego.

Strategies

Max needs an appropriately differentiated curriculum. Present and give information at a language level he can understand. For example:
• Break down instructions into small, manageable parts or chunks.
• Before giving instructions to Max, call his name, and make sure you have his full attention and that he is looking at you.
• Model/demonstrate what Max has to do before he starts a task.
• Use short, simple instructions, and slow down when talking to Max. Try to break down instructions into short, manageable chunks (rather than “Do x, then do y”, just give one part at a time).
• Allow processing time. Then repeat instructions to Max if needed, making sure you repeat the instruction the same each time
• Use visual support (e.g. natural gesture, facial expression, pictures, symbols, written word) alongside instructions and conversations.

Vocabulary
• Develop a basic communication board with the words he needs to ask for items in class, e.g. pencil sharpener, rubber, toilet, drink, help, finished, break. Have it on the desk and point to it when communicating with Max to encourage him to use it too.

• Pre-teach key or topic vocabulary before Max comes across the words in the lesson.
• Use a consistent structure to explore word meanings and sounds. Think about the first sound of the word, how many syllables, a word it rhymes with, an action for the word, a picture or drawing for the word, use it in a sentence, and give some information about its meaning. For example, a mind map or “Word Wizard” (Word Aware programme).
• When Max has difficulties retrieving a word, prompt him using these categories that he has already covered, e.g. give him the first sound of the word, or ask him to act it out.
• Review the words that have been provided by putting them in a “word pot” or “word bank” on Max’s table, on a word wall in the classroom, or in a vocabulary book.
• Where possible present vocabulary to Max using a multi- sensory approach. Using pictures, symbols, demonstrations.
• Have Max think about words in categories. Play word association games in a small group (e.g. each person has to name something that relates to cars or has to identify the ‘odd one out’ for a list of three).
• Encourage Max to say when he does not understand a word. He can tell the teaching assistant, who can note the word down. Max can collect words that he has ‘captured’ to help expand his vocabulary knowledge.

Asking for help
Encourage Max to ask for help if he does not know what to do. Max could be provided with a visual to help him know how to make specific requests for help. Encourage and praise asking for help in the whole class.

Access to small group work to practise Max’s social communication and conversation skills.
• Encourage small group work or naturally occurring small groups when possible in lessons, or in the playground of no more than 3 children in a group, where Max has to engage with his peers to complete the task, e.g. with opportunities to engage in “role specific” play, for example Lego Therapy, where children are either an “architect”, “engineer” or “builder”. The use of roles encourages children to interact with each other to achieve a shared goal.
• Play games at home that encourage interaction such as passing on objects, exploring together, snap or lotto.
• Give Max visual cues of good conversational skills and refer to them during 1:1 conversation, e.g. “eye contact”, or “talk about the same thing”, asking a question, saying something about what the person he is talking with has said, taking turns in conversation.
• Talkabout” or a social skills intervention may be helpful.
• Play games or activities which develop Max’s abilities to stay on topic during conversation, e.g. category games where you take it in turns to pick an object in the same category (“we are talking about our favourite: toys, fruit, clothes).
• Give Max a visual prompt you can use to show him when he goes “off topic” when answering a question. For example, a picture of a train and a track. The train can move along the track whilst you are talking or playing a game, and when Max gives an irrelevant answer or goes off topic, use the visual support to take the train off the track.
• For Max to use visual support (e.g. a narrative or talking prompt) to help him structure his news clearly e.g. to explain what he has done at the weekend or in the holidays. A talking prompt could also be used in talk partner work in class to help Max talk with a peer about a question the class is discussing

Beginning to develop Max’s explaining skills

• Read lots of stories with Max – these can be both with or without visuals and ask him questions based on the story after this, such as ‘who’ ‘what happened’ ’where’ ‘how’ and ‘what can the characters do? what is going to happen next?’ and ‘why’.
• Encourage Max to expand on his answers in conversation, by using open-ended questions, such as “tell me more”, or by giving him more time to add information.
• Use sets of pictures of familiar sequences (e.g. getting ready for school, growing a flower): put the pictures in order and talk about what happens ‘first, next, last’. Support Max work towards using this structure and vocabulary to talk about real events or to share his news and ask him what he thinks might happen next in the story.
• Try using visual support such as Black sheep press ‘Why, because’ cards to help Max explain his reasoning when answering simple ‘why?’ questions.
• Discuss different real-life scenarios using pictures and objects in a 1:1 or small group setting. Think about what might happen, why and what if. Max may benefit from structured intervention to target this, for example “Mr Goodguess” or Talkabout School/Home ( Black Sheep Press resources).
• School will give Max a piece of work/picture/item to take home to talk about with his Mum. This will help Max to generate ideas and remember an event in school.

Speech
• Provide Max with clear production of words he finds it hard to say, ensuring that he is able to see the mouth of the speaker to help him produce the sounds correctly and with slight emphasis on the word e.g. “I want soo” yes “you want two”. Can you hear that ”t” sound? Praise Max if he tries to copy the correct production or correct himself.

Arrangements for review and evaluation

Max can be re-referred to the Speech & Language service for review once these outcomes have been achieved.

Incase it's realivent he gets band D funding.

OP posts:
Summerpigeon · 10/07/2024 11:45

You have your son's name on that report
It's very identifying

Ds8and9 · 10/07/2024 11:49

Summerpigeon · 10/07/2024 11:45

You have your son's name on that report
It's very identifying

I'm not to worried it's just a name I'm not saying anything bad . If someone who knows him/me . Then they will see I'm trying to understand and make sure things are ok for DS.

OP posts:
Ds8and9 · 10/07/2024 11:54

Cantileveredy · 10/07/2024 11:38

I feel that there is no incentive for a school to push a child who is behind to get into working at y3 level. As if they stay in ks1 standard they dont sit sats/they dont count.
As at least one of dd classmates in y6 didnt sit them so must have been y2 level. I findi t hard to believe the child should have been so far behind after 7 years at that school.

Op i would be considering what you will do for secondary. As even with 2 years progress would he only be y3 level?

I don't really want him to go to a SEN school. But it's about DS needs not my wants . So I will look at both types of schools see who can support his needs. And take in any advice given etc.

OP posts:
Thisoldheartofmine · 10/07/2024 11:56

I don't know how it should be worded if 1:1 support is to be given.
But ....I can't see how all those objectives /strategies can be delivered unless the is 1:1 support.
Or maybe consistent very small group work.

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 11:57

People are commenting on the 1:1 and ‘sort of’ because that wording is what is important.

This is far too vague and woolly. Not an exhaustive list but to give you some examples:
“block of therapy” - how frequently, how many sessions, length of sessions.
“Would be a good way” and “may be helpful” - I’m sure they would be, but it doesn’t mean it will be provided. Also doesn’t say frequency or length of sessions or who delivers it.
“Small group work” needs defining.
“Needs”, “access to”, “may benefit from”, “could be provided”, “could also be used” don’t actually mean it will be provided.
“for example” “if needed” “e.g.” “where possible” “opportunities to” “such as” need removing.
“Try to” needs to be ‘must’.
“Can be referred” doesn’t mean he will be.
The EHCP cannot compel you to deliver the provision so the “at home” either needs amending or provision provided at home.

You need an early review to improve section F. At the moment, it isn’t sort of a 1:1. Much of this wording is not actually enforceable there. It needs to be detailed,d specified and quantified - who, what, when, where, how long sessions are for, frequency…

Thisoldheartofmine · 10/07/2024 11:59

Well put @BrumToTheRescue !
So obvious now that you've said it .

Ds8and9 · 10/07/2024 12:36

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 11:57

People are commenting on the 1:1 and ‘sort of’ because that wording is what is important.

This is far too vague and woolly. Not an exhaustive list but to give you some examples:
“block of therapy” - how frequently, how many sessions, length of sessions.
“Would be a good way” and “may be helpful” - I’m sure they would be, but it doesn’t mean it will be provided. Also doesn’t say frequency or length of sessions or who delivers it.
“Small group work” needs defining.
“Needs”, “access to”, “may benefit from”, “could be provided”, “could also be used” don’t actually mean it will be provided.
“for example” “if needed” “e.g.” “where possible” “opportunities to” “such as” need removing.
“Try to” needs to be ‘must’.
“Can be referred” doesn’t mean he will be.
The EHCP cannot compel you to deliver the provision so the “at home” either needs amending or provision provided at home.

You need an early review to improve section F. At the moment, it isn’t sort of a 1:1. Much of this wording is not actually enforceable there. It needs to be detailed,d specified and quantified - who, what, when, where, how long sessions are for, frequency…

It almost feels like they are saying DS needs this support . But we will word it so it does not (have) to be given.

I know for sure he's taken out once a week fir speech and language that's on a 121.

Small groups all the tables have 6 children each.

With his helper before this current one he was fantastic he used to update me on stuff tell me how ds is doing. He seemed to always sit next to ds on the table. I would often see them 121. Ds was much more happy as well

OP posts:
WithOneLook · 10/07/2024 12:50

As a teacher, having read hundreds of these things there is nothing there that states the school need to provide him with a 'helper' much less 1:1. The EHCP needs to say 'x needs 6 hours per week TA support for literacy' or whatever, in terms of it detail. In reality a 'helper' will not be employed on the basis of this EHCP and his needs will be assumed to be met via the class teacher and general class TA (and when you get to secondary it's incredibly unlikely that there will be a class TA).

AmyandPhilipfan · 10/07/2024 12:51

If possible I would ask to have a meeting with the next class teacher and whoever the TA is going to be m, before they break up for summer, to explain the struggles he has had this year and to discuss the timetable and when he might have the TA in his group and when he might have to cope in a whole class with no support. Going forward, at his next EHCP review I would really push the fact that as he is getting older the gap between him and his peers is widening and he would benefit from a full time 1:1.

BrumToTheRescue · 10/07/2024 12:52

we will word it so it does not (have) to be given.

That is exactly what LAs do.

I know for sure he's taken out once a week for speech and language that's on a 121.

He may be, but that isn’t in the EHCP, so doesn’t have to be provided. It is very unusual for a child to have ongoing 1:1 session with a speech and language therapist without in being detailed, specified and quantified in F.

Small groups all the tables have 6 children each.

But that is not what the EHCP states, so it, legally, doesn’t have to be that.

With his helper before this current one he was fantastic he used to update me on stuff tell me how ds is doing. He seemed to always sit next to ds on the table. I would often see them 121. Ds was much more happy as well

This is the problem. None of this is in the EHCP. Therefore doesn’t have to be provided and is why you need to request an early review to improve the EHCP. IPSEA has a model letter you can use. Even saying X hours of support by a TA isn’t enough. For example what support will be provided and what training/qualifications/experience will the TA have?

Yupthatsit · 10/07/2024 13:02

Calling them a "helper" is quite condescending.

Ask for a meeting with the SENCO.

Ds8and9 · 10/07/2024 13:10

Yupthatsit · 10/07/2024 13:02

Calling them a "helper" is quite condescending.

Ask for a meeting with the SENCO.

Why you picking at things... I have learning difficulties myself . So msy use the wrong wording sometimes ... ds refers to them ad his helper .

Is there actually a point to your post ?

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 10/07/2024 13:10

What you have posted does not state that he needs a 1:1 at all.

What you have posted is strategies to help him, and it doesn't state who should be doing this (apart from the speech and language therapy which you say is happening)

As a teacher in secondary I have taught many children with ehcps with similar content and no TA was provided.

If he needs a 1:1 then the EHCP needs to say so. At the moment it is written in terms of "the adult working with him" which could be the teacher.

He does not have a 1:1.
He doesn't have a sort of 1:1.

It sounds like there is a class TA and the teacher and that the teacher is working with him.

WitchyBits · 10/07/2024 13:13

You need to go back and get your EHCP quantified as much as possible. So it needs to specifically say he needs a 121 for x minutes x times a day. Otherwise it is impossible to enforce.