Disabled Customers Shut Out of Pubs

[Blackcats7]

Due to my disabilities I rarely get to go anywhere but last week a friend kindly took me out and afterwards we went for a pub lunch.
When we arrived there were two flights of two steps with no handrail or a ramp. I didn’t want to seem difficult or embarrass my friend but I was wondering how on earth I could get in as I use a rollator (a wheeled walking frame for those not familiar) and the steps were impossible for me. I can manage one step at home but have grab rails to hold on to. With a bit of help from a burly chap on his way out I got in and we had lunch.
Afterwards I asked where the loo was to be told it was down a flight of six stairs and there was no accessible loo at all. My friend got quite cross on my behalf and asked if disabled customers were supposed to pee on the floor.
We had asked to speak to the manager but were told they were not available. The waiter said well we do warn disabled people when they come in that there is no toilet to which I told him this was a) not true as nobody had warned me before I ate and drank and I am visibly disabled b) do they presume they can identify everybody who might require an accessible loo on sight as some disabilities are not visible and c) is it appropriate to be greeting customers by drawing attention to their toilet needs.
I asked how in 2024 a pub has no accessibility whatsoever and was told that the owner knows as there have been complaints before but he doesn’t care.
I had made it clear to the waiter that I was not angry with him personally but as he was representing the establishment I had to speak to him. He understood and accepted this so it was not personally acrimonious.
To get out there were two steps into the back garden which I just about managed although could easily have fallen tbh and then my friend had to move a table and pull back a conifer so I could get out the back gate into the car park.
I have since looked into the owner of this pub and he owns five others locally and has just bought a sixth so he is clearly doing pretty well financially.
It is not a listed building and there is plenty of room front and back which could be used to put in ramps.
I would like to take this matter further because it is terrible that disabled people are shut out like this.
Whilst the law supports accessibility I am struggling to find out who if anyone enforces this. It is not part of licensing conditions. Any ideas on where to turn to please?
The pub has a big sign by the front door saying Dogs Welcome (which is great) and I think they should add another saying Disabled People Are Not Welcome.

What type of building was it in? Sounds like an old one with the entrance up 2 flights of stairs? Did your friend not know this about it? Its shit and not fair, but there are some buildings that aren't allowed to change things as they're listed. Lots in Edinburgh Old Town like this.

If the building is not suitable for access, your friend shouldn't have taken you there. I certainly wouldn't have taken my disabled parents there.

If the building predates 2010, they are under no obligation to make it accessible - only that they should make reasonable adjustments for access. If it's up two flights of stairs, it may not be reasonable to change the building to make it fully accessible.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/accessibility-of-shops-and-businesses-for-disabled-people/#:~:text=Government%20guidance%20(PDF)%20states%20that,ensure%20access%20for%20disabled%20people.

I'm sorry you had a shit trip out. I would have chosen a different location though.

I'm sorry it was shit but I'm assuming an old building. They mostly can't be made
Accessible. Why did your friend take you there?

Everywhere should be made accessible where possible but due to the age of many buildings in the UK this isn't always possible. This one is on your friend not the pub.

Probably, like many able people she didn't think...... It's rarely malicious but unthinking.

It isn't 'pubs', it's 'some pubs', and I assume lots of other establishments.

Definitely there are loads of other pubs that would meet your needs, hopefully it will encourage your friend to think next time.

But surely, having arrived and seen the situation and problems with access you'd just turn around and go somewhere else?

I can assure you that the vast majority of pubs have excellent access, even listed ones with thatched roofs! Dsd is disabled and never had a single situation where there wasn't a ramp or disabled loo. Unfortunately this was obviously one of the exceptions, not good enough in 2024 but not illegal as you don't have to retrofit what isn't there unless doing a major upgrade

I'm disabled although I walk unaided anyway the pub should offer access im the form of a stair lift or ramp and I don't know how old the building is but it should have an accessible toilet if its had a refurbishment you can report to trading standards. Saying all that I wouldn't have at gone into a pub with that amount of outside stairs. Didn't you or your friend check?

There are older buildings where they don't need to be fully accessible, if it's not physically possible within the structure of the building.
I don't think any buildings built in the last 15 years or so would be permitted to have step only access to venue and or bathrooms.
I worked in a converted factory and there were 4 big flights of stairs. It was embarrassing as we hosted a group for disabled people (visual impaired/blind) and that was very awkward as we had to allocate a chaperone to each client. God knows what would've happened if they were wheelchair users/mobility impaired.

I’m disabled and won’t go anywhere that hasn’t been checked out first. We recently went out with DS1 & DDIL in the very touristy town they live in. He went to the pub the day before to check it out and make sure the toilets were easily accessible for me otherwise we’d have chosen somewhere else.

I don't see why an establishment like this doesn't have a polite notice outside. We unfortunately are unable to provide bathroom facilities for disabled due to building restrictions. That's all it takes.

As said it is not a listed building but older than 2010.
I am not expecting the building rebuilt but a ramp, even a just a couple of portable ones would be perfectly possible in the current set up and would not be difficult or expensive. At least that would be a start.
My friend had no idea that a pub with ground floor eating and bar would not be accessible and neither did I. She is no more responsible than me just because she is driving.
I wasn’t expecting the red carpet rolled out but simple access is not asking too much especially when the owner is aware of the issue but chooses to ignore disabled customers.
I think perhaps until you face this situation yourself you can’t appreciate the way this makes you feel.

I use a wheelchair.

A surprisingly large number of places are not accessible.

I usually check places out in advance of going for a meal etc.

I sympthasize. But not all buidings can have accessible toilets. In hindsight, your friend should have checked it out as she knows you have a disability. I dont know what you even mean by taking it further.

I agree a lot of places aren't accessible and not just because of physical access. Requiring people to order via an app isn't accessible, either.

As a wheelchair user, I always double check places to see if they are accessible. Disabled people have to check, rightly or wrongly.

if I was you and had difficulty getting in I would have checked on the toilet situation straight away. It’s annoying, but it is what it is.

for instance, there’s a Michelin starred restaurant near us which is accessible but has no accessible toilet. So if we were to go I know I need to use the pub next doors toilet. It’s on their website there’s no disabled toilet, so I am well aware.

Your pals in the wrong really. Why did she take you there?

I wouldn't have accepted help to get into a building I couldn't escape from easily in an emergency.

As the friend of a disabled person I triplecheck accessibility. Your friend sounds like a prick

This is a really good point. Why would you feel you’re embarrassing your friend if you say you can’t get in somewhere. She should feel embarrassed!

I absolutely do understand, which is why if I your friend I would never put you in that position. I wouldn't take my parents there as they couldn't manage the steps either. I also don't take my vegan friends to a steak house for dinner. It's common courtesy.

You can write to this pub, but if the owner isn't interested, he can probably excuse access it on the basis of not being a reasonable adjustment due to cost, time and / or planning permissions. Unfortunately what constitutes a reasonable adjustments are highly subjective.

Also, having provided you with ramps, he then apparently couldn't provide you with access to a suitable toilet which is likely the bigger issue in terms of cost and accessibility.

It's not the same but my place of work required a long flight of stairs before reaching to the office . The building is old so they have no obligation to make adjustments.
When someone asked what would happen if they broke a leg they were told they'd work from home until it healed .

My friend had no idea that a pub with ground floor eating and bar would not be accessible and neither did I
Where did the 2 flights of steps lead to if the pub was ground floor?

I'm amazed by the fact that most people are blaming the friend, rather than the owner of the pub.

I would write as many negative online reviews as possible calling the owner out and I would also write to the local licensing authorities pointing out that the owner is not making any effort to make the pub accessible but is still being allowed to buy new pubs. Pubs can lose their license if they do not adhere to health & safety. I would at least question the conditions at the pub. Make him feel the uncomfortable questions.

I am not a child being taken out by my mummy so it is not my friend’s responsibility more than mine. She was just driving as I can’t drive anymore and had taken me to visit her horses in the morning then the pub was on the way home.
My overall point was that the owner knows there is an issue, has ability, space and funds to improve things even in a small way but chooses not to do so.
I was asking who if anyone knows who ensures/ encourages/ monitors accessibility because googling is not giving me any clear answers.
But some people apparently prefer to blame my friend which is just bizarre and as for calling her names well this shows the calibre of the poster involved.
To be honest I am clearly stupid for expecting anything else on MN. The constant ableism is depressing but I suppose it is important for disabled members to keep trying to highlight the other side of things even if nobody agrees.