First past the post is archaic and leads to political apathy

[rumnraisins]

Hi

I’ve found this article on the Al Jazeera and I think it sums up the situation very well.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/5/uk-general-election-2024-why-do-some-popular-parties-win-so-few-seats

The FPTP system might work if you only have 2 parties to choose from but this isn’t the case in modern Britain.

How can a party with 35% of a turnout of just over 50% win a landslide?🤡

How can a party with 2% vote have over twice as many MPs as a party with 14% of the vote?🤡

How can a party with 12% of the vote have 71 MPs and a party with 14% - 4???!!! 🤡

Labour Party: 35 percent vote share, 412 seats
Conservative Party: 24 percent vote share, 121 seats
Liberal Democrats: 12 percent vote share, 71 seats
Reform UK: 14 percent vote share, 4 seats
Green Party: 7 percent vote share, 4 seats
Scottish National Party (SNP): 2 percent vote share, 9 seats
Sinn Fein: 0.7 percent vote share, 7 seats
Plaid Cymru: 0.7 percent vote share, 4 seats

Either people believe in democracy, meaning we have a true representation of the population’s sympathies (even if some are unpalatable to us) or we have to admit we are living in a paper democracy with a nice facade and a lot of rot underneath.

If you like that people you don’t agree with are artificially gatekept out, then you have to admit you don’t like democracy.

No wonder people in this country don’t feel represented.

We had a referendum a few years ago, but people chose to keep FPTP.

I rather think they didn't have a sensible alternative to offer people - PR can be done badly and us brits do excel at making a bodge job of things

The alternative offered was a poor choice that even those in favour of electoral reform weren't keen on.

I think the overall mood and opinion of FPTP vs. a proportional system has changed since. But the offer needs to be an investigation and review of suitable alternatives rather than a "This specific flawed alternative or nothing" choice.

Really? According to the article, only 26% of voters who were polled support the FPTP.

I’m an immigrant from a country that has proportional representation and while I can see how under PR some parties would be controversial or unpalatable to some, I feel that it’s a price to pay for a system that represents people better (especially coalitions represent a larger % of the overall vote and usually result in more sensible policies since they encourage compromises and collaboration).

We had an actual referendum on this in 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum

Well yes, FPTP is pretty stupid....but its what the public seems to want, so its what we have. And because the elected government benefits from this, it will probably remain like this forever.

Well, it was a vote on AV not PR. They’re not even close.

It even says in the article it wasn’t a vote on PR because Clegg caved in:

The failure of the referendum was considered a humiliating setback for Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg, who had acquiesced to the Conservative offer of a referendum on AV rather than proportional representation (PR) as part of the coalition agreement.[1][2] The referendum was linked to the ongoing decline of his popularity and that of the Liberal Democrats in general.[3][4]

That’s sad. No doubt it benefits the two mega parties and gatekeeps against new entrants.

The article says only 26% want it though. And the referendum in 2011 was on AV not PR, these aren’t even similar. I think it was meant to be a referendum on PR but Libs caved in.

I had already addressed that in my earlier reply.

It was a poor choice that was offered in 2011, but looking at last nights results the offer of an alternative system might have more widespread acceptance.

Labour voted as a party at their last conference in favour of electoral reform, but the leadership rejected it for the manifesto. The LibDems and Greens have it as a manifesto commitment. I think Reform may have it in their manifesto, and their strong vote share but poor seat conversion would definitely have them in favour. And even the Conservatives may be now look at it as a potential survival strategy. It was floated as an idea by some Tory candidates last night.

Yes, Clegg caved over PR. It was a pity, but he wanted to be in government.

I doubt there will be another referendum on it anytime soon.

I bet if Reform had just won a massive majority via FPTP (crosses self)Farage wouldn't be so keen on introducing it either!

I think Reform may have it in their manifesto, and their strong vote share but poor seat conversion would definitely have them in favour.

Does Nigel Farage really want to go down the road of having a second referendum because the options offered at the first weren't properly thought through...?

Nope , I am very happy with the current system.

He'll be hoping that either the Conservatives or the LibDems will introduce it as an Opposition Day Motion calling for a Royal Commission.