This is going to be interesting

[DoraSpenlow]

We live along a road of small detached bungalows. We have some relatively new neighbours at the end of the road, next door but three but sideways on because part of the property faces on to another road. Not sure how they managed it but they have got planning permission to put an upper floor in thereby making it into a house.

Their immediate neighbours were consulted and they said that they had no objection but that it should be noted they are naturists and spend a lot of time outside in their garden naked.

The newer neighbours have told them this will have to stop because they have young children and another on The way. The old neighbours have told them that's not happening. New neighbours have said they will report to the Police for indecent exposure/ flashing.

We are on the side of the old neighbours but others are pulling the 'think about the children' card.I

Could they be prosecuted under these circumstances? They have lived there about 20 years and never made any secret over the fact they spend time in their garden naked, but with bungalows and high fences it has never been an issue.

What are people's views on this. Should they cover up?

Im on the old neighbours side. Why change the habit of a lifetime because of some new brash neighbours.

The law is on the old neighbours side - an offence is only possible if they intend to cause alarm or distress - by being very clear about their intentions they are not trying to indecently expose themselves. Also it’s just body bits at the end of the day, what are new neighbours going to be doing in their upstairs, just staring endlessly out of the windows overlooking their neighbour’s garden?!

I don't know what the law is but if they're in their back garden behind fences, the onus should be on the new neighbours not to be voyeurs. Maybe they need to keep their curtains drawn in their new upstairs if it overlooks the neighbours? Or maybe put in shutters? Or have the upstairs designed with high level windows at the back that don't overlook previously secluded gardens?

I’m with the old neighbours. They aren’t currently overlooked so no one needs to be offended by their lifestyle. It’s the new people wanting to change things. They can just buy a different house or not build their extension if they don’t like it 🤷🏼‍♀️ Not sure what the legal position is though, if there is one. People are presumably allowed to be nude in their own garden.

Crossed post, thanks for explaining legal position @Arlanymor

Oh, the obvious solution is that they put frosted glass in the bottom half of their overlooking windows so their kids can't look.

I side with the old neighbours. They were there first, and they have accepted the new neighbours adding a floor to their property which means that the old neighbours garden will now be overlooked. They could have tried to block the planning permission but they didn't

It’s the new neighbours problem if they are building the extension so their children can see them.

Oh hell I had this argument with a neighbour because I dared sunbathe topless in my garden many years ago when I lived in a terrace. The police came, saw that he basically had to be leaning out of his bathroom window to actually be able to see me, and told him to stop looking at my tits if they upset him so much.

Law is on the side of nuddy neighbours, intent to alarm or cause distress has to be proven for it to be classed as indecent exposure or flashing.

Team old neighbours here. If the new neighbours were that bothered about it then surely the solution would be to put either roof windows or skylights in the rooms facing the garden.

I generally frown on people sunbathing naked when they're overlooked. But in this scenario, the new neighbours are causing the issue.

The old neighbours probably bought that property specifically because they weren't over looked. They've been gracious enough to not object to the building works. It's not on to expect them to "solve" the issue by covering up. I think new neighbours are CFs tbh! They need to come up with their own solution if it bothers them.

Regardless of Tom and his meat and two veg, some extenstions, depending on the protrusions, only get approved if the fenestration is frosted.

Is it too late for the old neighbours to repeal the planning permission due to the invasion of their privacy that was previously not mentioned?

Is there anywhere they can note that caveat to their approval of the extention?

So they can say 'we did warn them' if it becomes an issue.

I know the old neighbours are not intending to cause offence but if the new neighbours say they are causing offence could that be a problem, legally?

Also to answer a couple of other points -

I don't think it is a case of the adults staring out of the windows but the children, especially as they get to teenage years.

Suggestions of roof lights or obscured in some way windows have been rejected because apparently they should not be prevented from looking out over their own garden just because the neighbours won't put any clothes on.

As for buying a different property, they moved here from up North somewhere to help look after ageing parents who live in the village and properties here don't come up very often. They have been waiting a considerable time for something to come on the market.

Thanks for all the opinions.

I don't think it is a case of the adults staring out of the windows but the children, especially as they get to teenage years.

Tough titties, literally. The neighbours arent exactly going to endear themselves to the street by throwing up a dormer conversion, however legal, when it'll upset the look of the whole street.

Their immediate neighbours were consulted and they said that they had no objection but that it should be noted they are naturists and spend a lot of time outside in their garden naked.

old neighbours are being daft. They should be checking the impact on privacy of the new neighbour's extension, not least of all because of the future saleability of their property as and when they want to sell it.

Planning laws are in place to make sure there is no / minimal impact on privacy particularly NDN, plus light and in some cases general aesthetics, if the proposed development is completely out of keeping with the other properties in the near vicinity. Planning also stipulates that affected properties are consulted during a defined window of opportunity- if they havent even bothered to check the Planning Application to look at these important details the time will expire and they won't be able to object later.

modifications can be made under the consultation such as positioning of windows, removal from plans of any intrusive windows, and may include the requirement for obscuring/frosted glass.

OP if this property is in your road, you have the right to contact the council and ask any questions you want about the development. The LA Planning Department is there to field questions from local people and make sure any legislative requirements are met. So any of your legal questions on here ought to be addressed to the LA, as they have a duty of care in law for compliance.

Suggestions of roof lights or obscured in some way windows have been rejected because apparently they should not be prevented from looking out over their own garden just because the neighbours won't put any clothes on.

It's totally within their power to solve this (perceived) problem. If they won't make a simple adjustment of 'frosted fenestration' - which only needs to be as high as small children can see out of - that's up to them. Or maybe they need to up their parenting skills to teach their kids not to be nosy?

Sorry I was sorting out my car’s MOT.

No legally the new neighbours do not have a leg to stand on. There is no law to say that people can’t be nude in their own garden specifically and the overlooking aspect has already been proven to not be designed to cause offence but part of a lifestyle choice. You could almost argue that it WOULD be offensive if they had waited for the renovations to finish and then started bouncing around in the nude having never mentioned it before. But they have been straightforward and upfront about their intentions. If new neighbours take it to the police they might well make a visit to the property, but I imagine after a very short conversation with old neighbours they would head back to new neighbours and just say: “They’re not breaking any laws, we suggest you invest in curtains/blinds/frosted glass”.