Suspicious of cafe

[RoundandSad]

I’m curious to know if I am being too suspicious, or if anyone else thinks this might be a money laundering front.

I have started going to a newly opened café on the rare occasion that I can work at home. The place seemed odd from the start but obviously things are going to be hard when you open a new business. They are overstaffed - six members of staff for a cafe that seats a maximum of 20 I think - but they also panic when you order certain things off the menu….like… a sandwich.

And whenever I go in there, they try and direct me to order something else - presumably whatever dish they feel confident about producing that day.

They are over friendly and ask a lot of questions.

They do excellent coffee and cake so I kept on going. But it’s been a few months now and they don’t seem to have any more customers.

There’s a maximum of about three people in there. Other cafés in the area are pretty busy.

I go because the emptiness of the place makes it a really good place to do some work.

But today I realised I’ve probably been in for the fifth or sixth time and it’s still empty.

I know that it’s owned by a couple who lived in the area for a long time. they seem very nice. Couple of staff could be their adult DC.

Today They were telling me openly that they interviewed for a head chef and they haven’t had any luck …and they were saying things like “well who would want to work here.” Why would they be denigrating their own business?

Also, they are open from 8 am till 5 pm. I think. And they are paying six members of staff? Their staff bill must be huge.

Something about the place is making me feel really uncomfortable and today money laundering occurred to me. But if you’re paying the bill for that number of staff, you’re actually losing money, not laundering it?
Just wondered what MNers think.

If it is money laundering, I really don’t want to go there again.

I can’t help you, but I hope you get some interesting replies.

It doesn't sound like money laundry to me. It sounds like poor business sense. Maybe you are going in after/before the rush of other customers.

It must be pretty obvious about money laundering businesses as everyone on social media is easily able to identify them.

The purpose of money laundering is to hide the source of money, not to just have a business that sets off red flags.
A business that sells a tangible product such as goods or food needs to be able to account for buying the product (or its component parts) or the ingredients.
To launder illegal funds the business would exist to create accounts that show the illegal funds arriving in what would appear to be a legal route. If a cafe has sold a cake and a pot of tea according to its accounts then it needs to have receipts for a teabag, milk and sugar plus either bought in cakes or ingredients plus a utility bill for baking the cake.

They could of course have a cafe being a front for a catering wholesaler that’s a front - but the problem with that is that the laundering accounts would then document the evidence to link the flow of illegal funds making an easy case against them

If they have lots of staff in what would be a criminal organisation then that’s a waste of their real criminal skills adding to the expense of running the laundering

What sort of food do they usually prepare if they're hesitant about sandwiches?

They just sound a little naive and trying to get a foothold in business probably employing family and friends at a cheap rate maybe while they do pt study? Also young staff in their first customer role maybe lacking in confidence. If they haven't got a head chef potentially there's a few inexperienced people in the kitchen doing their best. Certainly ordering 'off menu' would send any cafe into a bit of a tailspin (how to charge it, how to tell kitchen what's needed if it's not a button on the till, whether they have the ingredients and even the capability to make it up).
When I was young and lacking in confidence in a similar role there were somethings I hated customers ordering because I knew the kitchen wouldn't be prepared/took ages/never had enough ingredients.

Money laundering by employing people and paying rent on commercial premises isn't the best approach as it's all traceable. Unless they are paid cash of course in which case it's a pretty decent cover but that carries its own risks if found out.

its probably just that they’re not getting their business out there and don’t have PR/marketing skills. If their adult children are working there they probably aren’t paying them wages, just all helping out while it takes off. As someone who works P/T in a similar establishment there are dishes I’m more confident at making and even certain coffees that I make a lot and know how to do, while those that I make rarely I may look a bit like a deer in the headlights if someone orders them!

If they’re nice people and make good coffee maybe shout out on your social media, suggest it as a hang out for friends or somewhere to have business meetings with your colleagues etc. Help them build up a reputation so that they can thrive. They won’t be laundering with sandwiches and coffee, it would have to be an unquantifiable service so they don’t have costs or at least a product (like those American sweet shops) where the markup is incredibly high but people pay it due to demand/supply and the actual cost of the product is a bit of an unknown.

Sorry noticed you said 'off the menu' not 'off menu'.

It's probably just that that means someone has to go make it and no one wants to do it/has confidence to do it/preparation is lacking. Trying to save money and reduce wastage by not making up sarnies before opening not keeping enough ingredients in stock given customer numbers are low. Chicken and egg really!

they're probably sceptical a head chef will be happy serving 3 people a day.

but the amount of staff sounds like overkill, it's always weird when there are more staff than customers

I don't think it sounds particularly like a money laundering front and I agree with PP that they're probably just a bit rubbish at running a cafe.

There's a bar near me that's similar. Always empty, always staffed. I thought money laundering as well but as PP says, money laundering is easiest when you have an ethereal product. Literal laundries, tanning places, casinos. Places where there isn't really a 'product' as such. Just machines running and electric bills to pay. Whether there's any clothes in the machines, tanned people etc. is not really provable.

They're probably just amateurs who are slowly losing their shirts. Very common in catering and hospitality. People don't realise how hard it is.

Agree with this. So many people think 'ooh a cafe sounds lovely!' Not realising it's really bloody hard work and lots of experience is needed to make it a success.
Same with running a B&B. Had loads of friends exclaiming it would lovely and easy 'just make a few breakfasts and make a few beds and the rest of the day is yours!' Hahah!

I agree @MrsTerryPratchett , there are a good few people who have no idea how hard it is to succeed in a business like this, and plenty who don't have the skills but think they'll be ok. The Gordon Ramsay TV series about failing restaurants had some extreme examples of this. So did the Hotel Inspector.
It's quite sad, but it shows how some people underestimate the skills of others and think hey, I could do that, when they haven't done the studying, learning and practising.

I think the thing with money laundering is you have a big pile of 'illict money' and are trying to get it into the 'system' and can show where it has come from. So by having a 'business' (regardless of its real viability) you can bank lumps of cash each day and say it has come from your business.

It seems that nail bars, 'foreign' barbers (what is a Kurdish barber?), and shops that only seem to sell mobile phone cases etc. seem to be popping up all over the place.

By having a lot of staff, they can show large overheads which will reduce any potential tax they would pay on their 'takings' that they have banked.

Another indication is when they sometimes have a sign stating that their card machine is broken or the connection is very slow and ask you to pay cash, although that may be a bit different and is so they can just skim money off the business without paying tax.

That last paragraph about skimming off cash is the opposite of money laundering.

Money laundering is about having obtained large amounts of cash and needing to find a way to bring it into a ‘legally’ acquired route covering up the true source.

It’s not even necessary to launder money through a fake business.

Scott Young, subsequently killed by the Russians, was advised by an accountant to just declare to the tax man.
He was moving cash on behalf of oligarch Boris Berezovsky and also needed to legitimise his commission.
He declared the source as dirty money, and by paying tax until it was moved into property etc it was cheaper to pay the tax then to pass through various businesses to launder it - and far easier

@tommika

That might work have if you have enough Oligarchs to go around but if it is a continual supply of money from, say drugs, that is when you need to show a 'legitimise' source.

Not that I am an authority on money laudering, my on contact with that was washing a pair of jeans with 2 ten pounds in the pocket. 😭

Thanks for the replies, rushing so sorry, I can't reply to all

Yes, people say it's easy to spot, and Google suggests cafes and restaurants as being common outlets for it. Especially for running a legit place alongside your usual dodgy one.

Re receipts, the Oxford Street sweet shops got away with it for a long time.

I don't really understand money laundering but something about the place is giving me the creeps.

I had a friend who ran a similar sized cafe for a while. She was in admin before and started from scratch but she did the cooking and hired one waiter.

I agree people set up without realising how hard it will be but this place is so highly staffed, it must be costing a fortune. However inexperienced you are, you don't employ that number of people.

Me saying family was a guess but they have to be paid minimum wage too.

It's odd going in there and there's lots of staff millimg around in a small space, talking at me like they've been waiting for a customer to chat to.

At lunch, which I thought would be peak time, the max number of patrons I've seem was three, including me.

My BF has been saying about county lines and dodgy money influx in the area ...not that I'd know how to spot that either.

Anyway, I won't be going back.

It sounds like shoddy business sense and chatty owners. Nothing is giving money laundering vibes.

It’s easier to launder notes successfully these days with the polymer ones.

On a lesser scale I found nice clean & shiney £1 and 5p coins in my pocket when dressing this morning