Girls school uniform - skirt length, make up etc

[Emmaheather]

Interested to hear people's views on this. I don't have any direct experience as a mother of boys who are at a school with a very relaxed attitude to school uniform. I don't understand why it's viewed as so important by some and why schools would send children home rather than let them attend school in a short skirt/make up. I worry about the messages being given by these attitudes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3gg178850xo

Honestly, I was definitely judgemental of the girls who shortened their skirts when I was a teenager so would have noticed - but I definitely didn't have to endure seeing arse cheeks during my school days! (Except in the changing rooms, that was normal obviously).

This isn't warped perspective at all, especially as I have a teen daughter who tries to find new ways to make my hair greyer. Fortunately inappropriate clothes isn't one of them.

I think it's ridiculous too. My DD is in year 8 and her school is generally very relaxed about school uniform too. They're even allowed to wear trainers as long as they're plain black. Also allowed plain black long shorts in the final half term.
The only things they're not allowed are large/hoop earrings which I completely agree with.
I don't understand why schools invest so much energy in policing school uniform and appearance.

Schools are criticized if they do something about it and criticized if they don't. As a female teacher I'd love to see the response from parents if teachers had their skirts rolled up so high you could see their bum cheeks.

@AllProperTeaIsTheft I think for schoolgirls the novelty would go off if no one ever made a mention of "your skirt is too short" by about 3 weeks into term.
It's all about wanting to break the rules and look cool (and being told off is part of the "look at me I'm a cool bad girl" act).

banning skirts is disastrous. The whole point of a skirt is to make periods easier to deal with compared to trousers. There was a school near us where trousers were compulsory for girls, and the a lot of teenage girls had to change schools because they were uncomfortable trying to cope with heavy periods in trousers. there is not way I would ever have managed trousers during my period.

Thankfully the school has changed its rules now. Well they had too, as they were losing girls every year

Wearing make-up doesn't mean a girl's face is covered and mean she is ashamed of it.

A little light tinted moisturiser or even a light foundation with spf enhances and offers sun protection. The latter is very important.

I'd prefer girls to be taught about good skincare and how to put the make-up on well tbh.

it isn't the schools job to teach how to put on make up! and yes, some girls may use make up in a healthy way, but many don't. We have 12 and 13 year olds tells us they will kill themselves if not allowed to cover their faces in the stuff! it needs to be banned in schools. Sun cream isn't banned

When they first went back to school during covid, DS's school had them all wear their school tracksuit to make frequent washing easier. They all looked the same (boys and girls), they were comfortable and I loved not having to iron shirts every week.
The students asked if they could keep this as permanent uniform, but weren't allowed to. Why not?

It's so extreme though in some schools. I've never had a job that's dictated what I wear or have my hair apart from needing to tie it back or not wear open toed shoes for example. Even holiday jobs where there was an uniform didn't care how I had my hair and makeup as long as I was wearing the right uniform

@sheoaouhra why does wearing skirts make periods easier?
I've always felt more secure in a pair of trousers when on my period.
I can remember at school the worry of an accidental flash of a pants where you could clearly see a sanitary towel or if there was slight leakage it would show or even the dread of blood running down legs.
Trousers (to me) always felt like they gave more security.

Really? Then why do hordes of young people manage the transition perfectly well in countries where there is no uniform?

Is your daughter allowed to wear shorts under her skirt at primary? All the girls in my dd's class do as they are all constantly upside down doing handstands/ cartwheels etc

What job is there out there that will tell women they can't wear makeup and measure their skirt length?

I don’t want to ban skirts. One issue I see as someone who grew up in a different country is that women in the UK have problems finding the right approach to clothing, you need to learn it and banning items don’t solve this.

One school made trousers mandatory if a girl got three points for too short or rolled up skirts. Suddenly the problem was vastly reduced.

But i definitely agree to adding properly cut trousers. DD’s school had two cuts and it worked on girls with basically no hips and numbs and curvy ones. DD now has to wear smart business and knows how to look for trousers who fit properly.

well, for a start, bulky pads can be seen under trousers quite easily, and there is no way to "turn" the trousers to cover up any accidents.

For a heavy period I would wear cycling shorts under a full dark skirt, so yes, I know what you mean about trousers offering some security, but not on their own.

I use to use the heaviest grade tampon, and several of the thickest possible pads all together, and still used to get show-throws on the cycling shorts, but not normally on the skirt itself.

It depends how heavy your periods are I think. But lots of girls with very heavy periods want to wear skirts, and trousers only schools exclude those girls

I am no Mary Whitehouse and remember having a shortish skirt, not wearing my tie etc when I was at school. However, girls are wearing them so micro now that its not unusual to see bum cheeks and I do think that is inappropriate. Thankfully the weathers so rubbich much of the year my DD is in thick tights too.

@sheoaouhra if a pair trousers are so tight they show off a sanitary pad then that's just as inappropriate as a skirt that shows off a backside !
Must be really uncomfortable too.

there are no trousers that wouldn't show the pads the thickness i used to have to wear

@sheoaouhra when was that though?
Modern pads are generally thin.

Teenagers often wear period pants now... they are a lot less bulky.

As far as I am concerned Make Up should be allowed to be worn. Wether it should be or not, the reality is that many girls (and some boys) find it a confident booster (especially if they are blessed with acné through their puberty. It also does make me laugh when schools go on about preparing for the work place, when sadly it’s a known fact that woman who don’t wear make up are less likely to get promoted/spotlighted in their job (to make it worst, research shows that female bosses behave even more negatively about this then male bosses do!) obviously this is awful and shouldn’t be a thing, but at current it is still hypocritical of schools to say this.

As for skirts, it much more complex, which is very difficult to find a balance. On the one hand, females should be able to wear skirts at whatever length they want and if they want to show their legs so be it. They shouldn’t have to hide their legs because it makes other (let’s face it men) feel uncomfortable or even worst horny.

However there is another side to this. First and foremost of all students in schools are (with the exception of some in the 6th form) CHILDREN and as such, I believe that safeguarding is important. First of all, why does a young girl feel the need to show their legs. Is it because they like the attention from people, if so why? or do they have low self esteem and their legs give them confidence? If these are the case, then schools should be supporting them as there is clearly struggling and help them know their own worth.

I myself am against the UK’s obsession with school uniform and think a dress code in school colours would be more appropriate. A lot of US schools that have uniforms do this and it gives the kids so much more choice, while still looking smart and united as a cohort.

I quite agree that it's a school's job to educate. It's a shame schools don't focus on that rather than policing uniform and making silly rules in particularly small minded ways.

Actually I think it would be preferable to have a few sessions on skincare in PSHE rather than some of the nonsense schools use them.for. I recall my dd being shown in PSHE by the school nurse how to use a condom, demonstrated with a cucumber (some of the girls were going to be disappointed - a courgette would have been more realistic) it apart from the joke and importantly, in the absence of any advice about consent, mutually loving and respectful relationships, etc, and God forbid that marriage might have been mentioned.

How does it offend a school teacher if a teenager wears foundation? It isn't illegal, it does no harm, and it isn't unkind to others. I wear makeup every day and have in a discreet way since I was about 14. What social or economic deficits do you think I might have encountered as a result? Did it stop me getting professional quals, having a great job, being a good partner and mother?

what do you mean how does it offend the teacher? What schools are for is the children, not the teacher - allowing make up in schools can be seriously damaging to some students. It needs to be completely banned, for the sake of the children. You say it hasn't damaged your life or your mental health - great - (but very strange have felt the need for it EVERY DAY !!?? since you were 14)

However, for many girls it does become a form of compulsion, and they do develop major issue over their self image and self esteem, and genuinely feel they cannot show their face without it

The secondary school my DSes are at is on the stricter side & we as a family thrive on that.

However, when it comes to uniform, they are less strict than many. They have no restrictions at all on hair, allow minimal make up & have introduced polo shirts for the summer term (to be worn under blazers). There are rules about skirt length but I've not seen any worn very short & they don't allow false nails/lashes & only 1 set of stud earrings, but all in all pretty reasonable I think.

Jeez, I’m imagining, The Handmaid’s Tale for some reason! Why should teenagers eschew self-expression and have uniformity forced on to them. I don’t agree that make up and clothes are just social conditioning. My DD enjoys sketching fashion designs and she also makes some things. She makes jewellery even, she is a natural Artist and enjoys the design of things, her Dad (DH) is.an Architect and is similar. She also plays the piano saying that as I feel this is more of an acceptable creative pursuit to some posters. DD will sometimes wear her skirt rolled up but not so you can see anything, she has tights on or wears cycle shorts but sometimes she wears baggy black school trousers, she loves jewellery and has been asked to remove some bangles. She is more channelling an Avril Lavigne look than Britney. I was the same and I love jewellery and taken by a bit of lipstick - so what I don’t have a mental health problem as you indicated further up. My Mum wore short skirts in the 60s and flowers in her in the 70s, again, so what. I feel that unless you like Girls football which incidentally my DD loathes, you aren’t really seen as progressive but really you are sexualising certain looks as you are the one denouncing any femininity as wrong!