How long will commemorating the world wars be a ‘big deal’

[MidnightPatrol]

There has been a lot of discussions this morning about various ministers attendance (and non-attendance!) of D-Day celebrations. The rights and wrongs of those actions aside…

… how long do you think we will be commemorating / discussing these wars as a really big deal in this country? They are so often referred to, attendance of events so important etc.

I had always assumed it might disappear with the deaths of those involved, which we are getting very close to.

I suppose it’s been within ‘touching distance’ even for me (born in the 80s) because my grandparents fought in it.

But for my children… might it all seem a bit strange and difficult to relate to in future? WW1 ended a hundred years before they were born, for example. They will never meet anyone that was in WW2.

@MidnightPatrol , for as long as people are decent and grateful.

Maybe till the next one? We don't commemorate the ones before the first world war so I guess it'll stop at some point.

😊👍

I think this quotation from George Santayana is appropriate
”Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”

I was born in mid 50s and both of my grandfathers were directly involved in WW1. Long dead now, but in my lifetime I've seen WW1 change from being something that happened within living memory, to being a historical event. I remember once saying to my father "WW1 is slipping into history".

Its strange to see the same thing happening to WW2. My parents were just too young to be directly involved, but "the war" absolutely dominated their childhood / early teenage years. Hearing about people whose parents had friends / relatives who "died in the war" was just normal when I was growing up.

Indeed. And that is why remembering the holocaust is in particular so important.

The wars are such a core event in the British psyche though, people refer to it often.

This presumably can’t persist as we get further from events.

I would assume it will remain a key part of any modern history curriculum as the biggest event of the 20th century.

Then it is mystifying to me why we allow politicians to treat our current military so badly.

It's nothing to do with being "decent and grateful". It's a mawkish overblown jingoistic distraction from how poorly funded and resourced our actual soldiers are.

But it's so much easier to dress up and proclaim how grateful you are to people who are long dead than to actually look after our current, living, armed services.

It’s part of world history and there are plenty of instances of historical world events being taught today and their relevance to the modern world. The Industrial Revolution for example. The abdication of the King, the Cold War, plenty of other wars and revolutions.

Will people still be speaking about Covid in 50 years time? Four years ago, it was all many people thought about and we’re seeing the repercussions now and will continue to do so.

The country we live in would be very different, were the outcome of the 2nd World War different. One of the most poignant things I’ve experienced was taking a school party to Normandy. The look on those teenagers faces as they looked at the plaques in the cemeteries was so moving. They hadn’t before realised that people only a year or so older than them had sacrificed their lives so they could live in a free country.

Of course it won’t be long before those actively involved are no longer with us, but what they did should be remembered.

WW2 certainly is a central event in the British psyche, but I think that peoples attitude to it has slowly become bizarre. I suppose memories of the war dominated my childhood. I really can't remember anyone from my parents' generation being so jingoistic. Yes, they were proud of their role in it, but my impression is that they saw it as a terrible tragedy and an ordeal to live through.

It’s part of world history and there are plenty of instances of historical world events being taught today and their relevance to the modern world. The Industrial Revolution for example. The abdication of the King, the Cold War, plenty of other wars and revolutions.

I agree but OP said commemorating. I think realistically there won't be events like we had this week for the 110, 120, 130 year anniversaries.

That's not to say they won't be taught, of course they will. But I think that once we get past 100 years, large scale events will decrease.

@Bluevelvetsofa but the cultural importance / daily relevance of conversation around the wars far outstrips any other historical topic in the UK.

I mean, we don’t do an annual celebration of the end of the Cold War, or remember when the king abdicated, or celebrate the Industrial Revolution.

vs A minute’s silence on the 11th of the 11th at 11, scouts attending memorial parades, comparisons in the paper of the national service policy to conscript ion in the war etc. I grew up reading novels based in that time etc.

Its definitely regarded in a very different light to other now historical events - but is that the scale of it (and don’t will continue), or is it that it was recently so catastrophic for people who are still alive today - but will that continue if they aren’t here?

This I hope.
We shall not forget them and may us and future generations be for ever grateful for our freedoms.

The impact of the two world wars in the twentieth century will be studied for a very long time because of their impact on human society across the globe. However, the immediacy of it will fade as the generation who took part fade from memory, particularly if there's another large war that affects our civilian population.

I think the idea that it has become central as an opportunity to be jingoistic is an interesting one!

Certainly could be an outlet for some national pride / nationalism / post-Empire power thing.

I think, realistically, that there will be a big 100 year 'celebration' (is that even the right word? Commemoration?) And then it will become a historical event. Remembrance Sunday is different, because it's now about all wars and conflicts - rightly so imo - and sadly they're not stopping any time soon. So that will, I'd think, be an enduring memorial.

Slightly surprised your DC will never meet anyone who remembers the wars, DD is 7, and her GM on one side, and GGMs on the other were teens during WW2. Or did you mean they won't meet anyone that fought in the war?

I mean, I and lots of others I know don't take part in these activities, but choose to visits historical sites of interest etc and educate ourselves on the horrors of war in other ways.
I would also add here, vote for political parties who don't engage in 'divide and conquer' tactics or deliberately ignite dissent against certain groups in society. The quote above is right, those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it, and allowing ourselves to be pitted against each other by political parties, and the media they control , rather than demanding and seeking proper, full context, factual evidence and unbiased stats in order to inform ourselves is exactly how history repeats itself. (Not looking for a debate on this! Just making a point, if that's okay)

It was interesting that this might be the last event with veterans at it. It’s going to slip out of living history. As it is, increasingly my parents generation are now going into care homes and reaching end of life stages - but they are the post war baby boomers, raised with it being their parents who served in the war, who talk about playing in bomb craters and having lots of the detritus of war home front being around in their childhoods to make it seem still relevant to them.

so maybe another 10 years it’ll lose its power?

My DC is 1.

My grandparents were teenagers / fought but are all dead now (on both sides). My parents were born an decade after it ended.

When they are 7, someone born in 1939 ie only possibly able to remember as a very small child themselves (if at all) would be in their 90s.

Anyone in my family involved or both pre-1945 is no longer with us.

like you OP we also have no one left of the wartime generation. It was more real to me as we talked to grandparents about it, but for my kids, the oldest member of their family living when they were born was born 1942 so has no memory of the war. Most of the older generation are post war.

I think it’s when the children of the war generation pass, it will pass to history which we will study and remember, but will stop being as significant.

It's a weird one. Throughout my lifetime there's been more of a deal made about the world wars rather than less. When I was a child the attitude seemed to be to feel sad about them but let them lie in the past. Then we got to the 90s and first Major then Blair saw it was good for votes to make a bigger noise about it, with national silences and events and so on, all feeding into a nostalgia industry and, in particular, massively overplaying the importance of British actions in WWII while completely ignoring that it was really won (or rather, lost) on the Eastern Front.

So if this continues then it's only going to be more and more talked about as time goes on.

My mother was 80 yesterday, born on d day and I remember my grandmother talking about her labour (at home) and hearing the troops and vehicles going past her house. That must have been scary! For my daughter and nephews, all in their late teens I think it has become a historical event, something they just learn about in school, and through visits we have done to historical sites but it is definitely "removed" for them whereas I grew up hearing my grandparents memories it was more real if you know what I mean.

I agree with this. Unfortunately I think it's because labeling it as bravery, sacrifice and victory rather than an utter tragedy makes it easier to sell the next conflict to us all.