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Jane Austen's men. Who's top of the slap list?

112 replies

CurlewKate · 31/05/2024 11:26

Not the obvious ones, like Mr Collins or Walter Elliott, but the slightly less obvious ones. At the moment, mine are:

Sir Thomas Bertram
James Moreland (although he is such a wonderful, completely timeless character!)
John Dashwood.

OP posts:
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/05/2024 13:05

SofaSpuds · 31/05/2024 13:02

Completely agree.

I even want to slap the ever wet Charles Bingley - especially in BBC's P&P - I hate him and Jane! They're both too "nice" and get completely walked over.

I think Bingley hero worships Darcy a bit, and the pre-Lizzie Darcy isn't self-aware enough not to take advantage of that and run Bingley's life for him. For B's own good, of course, and in tandem with B's sisters.

Binglebong · 31/05/2024 13:24

Anne's father in Persuasion. Sorry, blanking his name. Awful man!

LongIslander · 31/05/2024 13:31

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/05/2024 12:55

Say it quietly, but I have sometimes wondered if Mrs Croft doesn't always want to be going out for walks or drives a deux and would like some alone time...

I figure she goes with him in the carriage primarily because he's such a bad driver she thinks he's likely to have a major crash, and as she's managed not to lose him overboard or to a cannonball at sea so far, and she's rather fond of him, she thinks she'd better stick close.

And yy to Mr Woodhouse. He always strikes me as someone liable to generate many AIBUs.

'Invited to dinner at a neighbour's, and was looking forward to a nice pudding when our host wouldn't let us eat it because he thought it was unwholesome?'

'Invited to cards and supper at a neighbour's, and he wouldn't let me have any custard on my apple tart because he 'didn't advise it'!

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LongIslander · 31/05/2024 13:34

And also, imagine the AIBUs from 'poor Miss Weston' about Mr Woodhouse:

'AIBU to really wish my former boss hadn't spent my wedding day telling all the guests that I really wished I hadn't got married and wanted to stay on in his house?'

'AIBU to wish my former boss hadn't tried to forbid everyone from eating wedding cake at my wedding because he thought it wouldn't agree with them?'

'AIBU to ask my former boss to please stop calling me 'Poor Miss Weston', and pointing out that my marital home is three times smaller than his?'

CurlewKate · 31/05/2024 13:34

@Lesleyknopeswaffleiron I'm glad that just for once it's not me being the fun sponge-🤣. Sorry- it really is just an expression- and I am happy to change it. I was wondering about a similar list of women, but I do think that the power imbalance means that it would be too complicated. Even the most irritating Austen women almost invariably have sound understandable societal reasons for their behaviour. Some of the men do too of course, but they have more freedom. Most of them could be different if they wanted to be in a way that the women couldn't. But fear not, no Regency Bucks were injured in the course of this post.

OP posts:
SaltyGod · 31/05/2024 13:46

Mr Gardiner is a fairly decent hard to find a reason to slap man in P&P.

He takes his niece on holiday, he puts up his other niece for several months, he helps to sort Lydia’s wedding (Allbeit to disguise Darcy’s involvement) Mrs Gardiner seems to like him, and she’s decent. He puts up with his awful sister and visits her. That’s not half bad Mr G.

CatHerderSupreme · 31/05/2024 13:48

LongIslander · 31/05/2024 12:26

And probably a cross-dresser, given his alarmingly detailed knowledge of muslins?

He did clothes shopping for his sister though, which explains his knowledge. No online shopping or Amazon in those days!

CurlewKate · 31/05/2024 14:01

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain Remember that Mrs Croft got a convenient blister halfway through their stay in Bath.....

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 31/05/2024 14:07

@zaxxon "If Frank had said something, it would have been more like, "fergodsake, Em, that was a bit much ... fucking funny though!""

Yes, he probably would. Which shows how awful he was. The Bates just has to take whatever Emma threw at them- she wasn't being just ordinarily rude- she was being rude to people who had to depend on her for patronage and be constantly grateful. That loin of pork wasn't just a nice little treat-it was necessary food.

OP posts:
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/05/2024 14:13

CurlewKate · 31/05/2024 14:01

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain Remember that Mrs Croft got a convenient blister halfway through their stay in Bath.....

Yeah, I do and that's sus if you ask me.

maxelly · 31/05/2024 15:19

On the Mr Knightley telling Emma off thing, I honestly think that whole passage is one of the most brilliant pieces of prose description of the many and varied flaws in human nature in the english language. The point is that Emma isn't inherently wicked, evil or nasty, just a normal human being under a certain amount of emotional strain, being irritated by an annoying but well-meaning person and so is betrayed into a objectively unjustifiable and really quite hurtful breach of manners. As someone said, particularly unpleasant for Miss Bates because of the social dynamic that Emma has all the privilege of looks, wealth, power, youth etc and she is the 'poor relation'.

The brilliance that austen subtly draws out though is that while Emma does know in her heart that she was wrong, she pretty quickly performs the sort of mental gymnastics that all we (if we're being honest with ourselves) do when we know we're in the wrong, 'oh it wasn't that bad', 'she didn't even notice', 'she'll have forgotten about it soon', 'it would have made it more awkward to say something at the time', 'best to just forget about it' and by the time she's got one foot in the carriage door she was well on the way to being totally wrapped up in herself and her own concerns again - it takes the shock of someone you truly trust and respect (like Emma does Knightley) to point out to you how wrong you were to shock you into a proper sense of it - also takes a lot of moral upstanding-ness and bravery to challenge someone you love when they've been wrong as well and to do the right thing over the easy thing - the fact that Mr Knightley doesn't quite manage it without coming across as pompous and patronising shows he's not perfect either (and I do agree the whole 'he's been teaching her right from wrong since she was in the cradle' is a bit of a creepy dynamic.

Frank Churchill would never have bothered to say anything to Emma even as part of a joke, because he's all for doing the easiest/most pleasant thing for him rather than the right thing by other people over the whole book, he's set up as a foil to Knightley in that way, and even had he noticed Miss Bates was hurt (unlikely!) he wouldn't have risk causing a row with Emma about it - again though I do think that's the brilliance of Austen that despite him being the 'baddy' of the piece she gives him a proper happy ending too, arguably a happier/better ending than Knightley and Emma get, they get a quiet wedding then living a life of virtue tending to their apple orchards and indulging a querulous old man in their secluded/boring country village where their greatest triumph/excitement is lording it over the rustics, whereas Frank and Jane get to travel the world, wear sparkly jewels and doubtless host glamourous balls in town as well as having a huge estate at Enscombe etc. So while the 'message' of Emma is ostenisbly that truth and righteousness gets it's due reward in the end she also has a bit of a tongue in cheek about the realities of that too...

UnravellingTheWorld · 31/05/2024 15:24

WeegieWan · 31/05/2024 11:44

Frank Churchill - Jane Fairfax deserved so much better than that selfish, self-absorbed git.

Do you know what, you're totally right. The more I watch it the more I understand what a prize twat he was.

Just today I borrowed P&P (the book) from my mother. My mind instantly went to Mr Collins because he's just so cringy 🤣

UnravellingTheWorld · 31/05/2024 15:35

Toddlerteaplease · 31/05/2024 13:05

He allowed his wife to bully him. He should have stood up to her. If she was a man, she'd be slappable

Is there a more vile character ever written than Fanny Dashwood!!

Salacia · 31/05/2024 15:40

So glad others have said Mr Bennett! Yes Mrs Bennett is irritating but at least she’s trying to do something about the potential impending financial catastrophe using the only means available to her.

Cooper77 · 31/05/2024 17:10

If any says Darcy, we got a problem. I've been in love with him since I was 15.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/05/2024 17:26

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/05/2024 12:17

Edmund Bertram - mooning around after that woman who's playing him like a fish AND to the woman of solid worth and integrity (even if she is a prig) who's in love with him.

Captain Benwick - Lydia's a rebound girl and Captain Harville can see it. Three years and Benwick's going to find he and Lydia have nothing in common.

Lydia's a rebound girl and Captain Harville can see it

Louisa, of course. Not Lydia. 😊Now I know what the Admiral meant when he complains about women having different names he can't recall.

NoEnemiesManyPatios · 03/06/2024 21:40

Mr Elton for ideas above his station. And since I'm here anyway, Mrs Elton for overtrimming her dresses, and for referring to Miss Fairfax as Jane and Mr Knightley as Knightley. 🤣

SarzWix · 04/06/2024 10:51

zaxxon · 31/05/2024 12:21

But also Henry Tilney in Northanger Abbey. He is SO patronising to Catherine and is clearly laughing at her behind her back half the time.

Yes! OMG I despise that patronising little w**ker!

motheronthedancefloor · 04/06/2024 19:25

Mr Collins, Mr Elton, Mr Bennett, Mr Elliot, Frank Churchill, Wickham, Mr Woodhouse, Captain Benwick. Lots of annoying male characters.

LongSinceGotUpAndGone · 04/06/2024 19:35

In the spirit of non-obvious, I will go for Charlotte Lucas's brothers. Embarrassed by her possible spinsterhood - twats!

LongSinceGotUpAndGone · 04/06/2024 19:38

Also, honourable mention to the Honourable John Yates. I actually quite like him overall but I'd have wanted to slap him when Sir Thomas came home and he wouldn't shut up about 'Lovers' Vows'.

SOxon · 04/06/2024 19:59

UnravellingTheWorld · 31/05/2024 15:24

Do you know what, you're totally right. The more I watch it the more I understand what a prize twat he was.

Just today I borrowed P&P (the book) from my mother. My mind instantly went to Mr Collins because he's just so cringy 🤣

David Bamber, take a bow !

MrsSkylerWhite · 04/06/2024 20:01

Willoughby. Though I guess he was as trapped by the importance of financial status as the women of his time.

Compash · 04/06/2024 20:04

@maxelly Yes, absolutely, I love that scene for the reasons you say! Knightley cares enough about Emma to want her to be her best self, he's not going to soft-pedal it out of adoration. He's got a strong moral sense, and that means he's going to be a rock-solid, dependable partner for her.

And yes, she wriggles on the hook, but then she takes steps on her own initiative to try and remedy the situation, so she's made stronger by it. And the fact she feels bad about it means that, although she's been spoilt and indulged, she has a strong moral core too. Perfection. 😙

(Though I should call him Mr Knightley - I'm not Mrs Elton... 😁)

Laska2Meryls · 04/06/2024 20:08

Col Brandon .. god, he's wet.. mooning over the insufferable Marianne...( Although admittedly it'll be some time before I get over Alan Rickman in those riding boots )

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