What level of shouting and language is normal/acceptable?

[sumnus]

I grew up in the 80s. I remember us children being smacked a couple of times, and I remember being told off a lot. My mum had a ferocious temper and probably shouted sometimes. But I never remember hearing a swear word and I never remember being called names.
I live in terraced housing between two families, both of whom have children under the age of 6. Both mums shout at their children a lot, swearing when they tell them off and calling them names such as, "You horrible little girl!" or "what a nasty little boy you are!". (Professionally, I was trained to label behaviour, not the person).

Let me be very clear. I don't have children, partly because I never thought I'd be a very good mum. I have no reason to believe I could be doing a better job than my neighbours are doing, let alone at their age.

But I'm curious - is it normal for parents to swear and 'label' their young children in this way? How did/do you parent? Where did/do you draw the line?

Swearing at children is relatively unusual.

Calling them names - most parents do this at some point but it varies from once in a lifetime to very frequently.

Most parents have at least thought "oh you little sod" and sometimes it comes out.

My mum was like this to me- definitely labelled me all sorts of horrible things and also minor physical stuff.

I have tried hard never to label my children and mostly succeeded, I never shout and they've only ever heard me swear in an "oh fuck I've smashed my phone" sort of way rather than "you little shit" (they are late teens). I'd say this was pretty typical.

However, the bar for anyone intervening is very low- I once reported a neighbour to SS for child abuse (screaming you little cunt with smacking sounds and crashing through the walls) and was told they could do nothing without physical evidence of violence such as injuries.

I honestly can’t remember hearing bad swear words until I was at secondary school, let alone from adults.

My parents never, ever called us names. My mum was brought up in a dysfunctional home and her mother in particular was very fond of calling her children nasty names. So my mum hated that kind of behaviour and refused to allow it in our home, even between us siblings. She never swore. My dad let out the odd swear word when we were teenagers, but more along the lines of 'would you ever tidy that bastardin' room of yours?' Not great, but with his shipyard voice used to shouting over clanking metal and blow torches, it certainly got me moving! I certainly don't call my children names, except maybe 'ya eejit' in half irritated, half affectionate way. But I do shout sometimes, especially when I'm tired.

I honestly can’t remember the last time I shouted at my dc (I’ve got two aged 12 and 21). We just aren’t a shouty family. I never swear except an occasional f word if I’m cut up in traffic or hurt myself accidentally. My Mum was schizophrenic and alcoholic and was always unpredictable and shouty and I remember being terrified of her as a child, so I’ve become m completely the opposite as an adult.

I called mine my last nerve is that bad 😂

My mum was very shouty and explosive. She'd throw things and say horrible things to us. This was the 90s.

There are no raised voices or name calling in our house and there never will be. Not between adults or at children. How else you you teach kids how to manage their anger and frustration properly if not by showing them.

My sister is a permissive parent who then loses her rag, I've seen her shout, call her kid a brat and threaten to hit them. It's a shame because otherwise she's a fantastic mum and really tries to not be like our mum.

I grew up in a very shouty household. We were screamed at, swore at, threatened daily and hit often. We weren’t even kids who misbehaved as we were so scared of our parents. it was a horrible to grow up in and made me a very anxious child with issues that needed addressing in adulthood.

I never wanted my children to experience that sort of childhood so we parent very differently. There were times we had to use firmer voices when they were younger but there’s no screaming or swearing at others, name calling, threats or hitting in our house.

I call my DS a filthy, nasty, rotten, stinking pigeon, but only when tickling him and he loves it. (Based on the book Don’t Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus, which is his favourite). I would never call my DCs actual nasty names and mean it.

Shouting, I’ll admit I probably do lose it and shout once every couple of months, when all three are whining at me at the same time and I can’t deal with them one at a time. I’ll shout above the fray, “everybody quiet right now, or else no one is getting what they want and that’s final!”. Usually that surprises them into silence for long enough for me to get the situation under control. Not the best parenting, but used sparingly I’m reasonably confident they won’t be scarred for life. I don’t see the point of shouting all the time - I can’t imagine it’s very effective.

I think it depends largely on the area.

I live in a very deprived area and it's not unusual at all to hear parents screaming and swearing at their children, whereas in much nicer/more affluent areas I've heard it rarely.

That's not to say all parents in my area are like that (far from it) but still, hearing that sort of thing is sadly not unusual at all around here.

Still wrong. Also I don’t think you can know “most” parents do it. I certainly never did.

I have never, ever, called my children a name. I have shouted at them obviously! In a ‘put your bloody shoes on for the love of god’ way. But even that, probably five times a year

References please??

my mum used to swear at us, smack us, and frequently shout at us. I’ve never smacked my kids, don’t swear at them, and never really need to raise my voice.

I don’t think any sweating; offensive names or shouting is acceptable. Shouting only in an extreme situation. I’d find this incredibly upsetting to listen to

Shouting at children routinely is abusive.
Using swear words in front of other humans is disrespectful and lazy.
Calling children, or anyone, demeaning descriptive words is offensive.

Parents I know try hard but don't always live up to their own expectations. Occasionally they curse and shout in front of children but, in my experience, it is infrequent.

Some parents have extra pressures and insane demands, work hours and financial problems. It is understandable that, in these cases, children see their parents lose control, acting fearful and behaving badly more often.
Poor kids - it's hard to know whether removing them would be in their best interest.
Sometimes helping out a little can have a huge benefit.

When my kids were little I never call them names in anger but I have said things like 'don't be such a bitch to your sister' when my teenagers are arguing. But I'd have to put someone in disciplinary procedures at work if they behaved the way teenage siblings can behave to each other (and I have good teenagers).

I’d find this incredibly upsetting to listen to.

It is ☹️, especially the first family. But when the second family moved in and were nearly as bad I started to wonder if I am just old and out of touch.

I have said things like 'don't be such a bitch to your sister'

I appreciate you answering the thread honestly but I’d hate to live in a house where someone spoke to me like this.

Swearing at children is relatively unusual.
I wish, I wish, I wish, I could agree with you. I can't. If it's your experience, you just live in better places.

Really normal in my childhood, alongside plenty of violence, and decades on it's been really normal with many crap parents every decade of my life. I'm glad to say levels of general violence seem to be lower.

I grew up encouraged to swear as an alternative to crying, considered far worse, but not if the pain was caused by a kicking.
We had exactly what kind of dregs we were screamed over us with foul language, and while school and eventually 'care' used different forms of negative language, they re-enforced the idea that we had no value and our existence was a problem to all. The cursing wasn't really the big issue in hindsight.

V. little sound proofing here, neighbors with kids I have to hear every word from:
MC couple who don't swear but shout all day every day, at their children for what they haven't done, have done, or for crying when shouted at. Yelled at that they are horrible, weak, whiny, children constantly, for what seems like normal childrens stuff. They aren't under the standard stresses, just don't seem to like them most of the time. No swearing involved, but so painful to hear. We're the only people here DC's are allowed to speak to.

A totally non swearing, but vindictive, angry, loud, controlling 'you have no right to hold anything but my extreme opinions and views' parent, whose DC's are beyond oppressed. Told they're hated for their race. No one knows what they think as they're silent or monosyllabic. Loudly lectured about what they must believe and think, and berated for failing to nod acknowledgement in the right places. Outside she speaks for them, everyone says they're so respectful, and she laps up the conformation of her parenting.. They aren't allowed to speak to us or anyone. No swearing, but edges of Prevent, but, she's also trying to keep them alive in post code gang land.

Nasty violent, bullying, swearing mother, at war with her alternating baby daddies, whose kids have grown up similar. Backed up by an XL Bully. Screams abuse at home and on the street, kids are either screaming it back, or the lot of them ganging up on neighbors or passers by, sometimes physically. It's a long lost cause. We all avoid other than when forced to engage.

Plenty of similar on our block and it generally gets scary in summer when they, outdoors, later evenings, and alcohol, combine.

We're cheek by jowl to nice bits and MC lives but quality of life has got way worse since Sure Start, community center, youth club and outreach closed down.

Afraid I'm naturally sweary, withholding it. My Dc's knew why I tried to keep it from them, and why I was trying to raise them differently. No one here's allowed to swear in front of anyone under 18 unless it's me having to big up against aggressive neighbors. I'm visibly disabled as is one DC, so attract some choice descriptions, and being able to hold your own affects what happens next here. Being generally polite (= a snob and victim) but able to match the vernacular powerfully at will can actually stay violence. We code switch as necessary.

Because of how life is here, conversations about what swearing is, what it's uses are, and when it may be appropriate and not are part of education and all mine could give you an academic essay on 16th C swearing onward. Like many, I'm doing my best in the circumstances I have, rather than how I'd like life to be.

Fair enough but context is everything and what would you say if you had a 16yo saying to her 15yo sister something like 'you're so fucking stupid, just get to the fucking point'?

Teenagers can be incredibly horrible to each other at times. So after repeatedly trying to contain an argument with calmer language you sometimes need to do the verbal equivalent of throwing cold water over fighting cats and use a relatively mild swear word to describe bad behaviour to instantly stop more damaging insults being thrown around.

My mum never, ever swore. I only ever heard my dad swear once, and that was when someone drove into the side of our car.

I was a kid in the 60s and 70s and I was never shouted at or called names. I was hardly ever told off. We didn't have rules and were never punished. I've rarely shouted at my kids and I've never sworn at them or insulted them. I did have rules and they did get 'consequences' if they were naughty. I can't abide shouting.

References:

This article notes that there is concern about children being exposed to swearing

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&assdt=0,5&qsp=1&q=swearing+at+children+parents&qst=bb#d=gss_qabs&t=1716154331413&u=%23p%3DSFJhJXXF2AgJ

People who swear are often judged negatively

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&assdt=0%2C5&q=should+parents+swear+&btnG=#d=gss_qabs&t=1716154881394&u=%23p%3DkPqLupoPVrgJ

Women tend to be judged more negatively than men

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002438412200170X

Parents who swear at or around their children are judged negatively

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/21/can-you-stop-people-swearing-in-front-of-children

This one is American but notes that most clinicians would consider swearing at your child is abusive

incacs.org/when-yelling-at-a-child-becomes-verbal-abuse/#:~:text=Is%20swearing%20at%20your%20child,harm%20them%20repeatedly%2C%20is%20abusive.

People who swear are judged negatively, women who swear are judged negatively. At least two media outlets argue that swearing at your child is bad (one) or abuse (the other).

Parents who swear freely and frequently around children will be judged negatively, because it shows either an inability to control yourself, or no care to do so, and little interest in how baseness can affect children.

But it's also fair to say that people who don't conform to other peoples ideas of how they think each other ought to be, will be judged negatively.

Including for having to bring their children up surrounded by violence and foul language, because of socio economic factors.

It results in parents, especially women, being judged for everything and anything all of the time.
Its effects rely on parents being anxious about themselves and what others may think about them. Consequently it rarely seriously bothers the very top or bottom of society.

The consequence is that concerns about being socially judged become lowered, especially when it is one class judging another. (even when they are right)

Social judgement only works when everyone agrees a social contract and to look down on or ostracize the non conforming. As soon as their enough of the non conforming, social judgement looses any real power.

We have stripped away the places parents used to see from each other what might be good enough or not good enough parenting such as play groups, pre-schools, Sure Start centers etc. Isolated many, and put more and more parents into the stress factors that used to mainly affect the WC poor and lone parents. (both constantly judged) It's an inevitable consequence that there will be some rise in aggressive negative parenting. IMO the fact that parents are judged for it, isn't enough on it's own, to contain or change it.