Why do school have to be so vague about trips?

[elliejjtiny]

My dc secondary school sometimes takes certain pupils on trips, not the same pupils each time. The school just say "a selection of pupils went to x place to do (insert fun activity here)" in the newsletter or on the school Facebook page complete with photos. Then the parents comment if it's the Facebook page saying things like "thanks so much for taking George surfing, he had a great time" or similar so it's not confidential who went but it's unclear as to why those children were going. So my dc will sometimes ask about it but I can't say maybe you will be picked next time or this trip is just for children who need extra help, or who got 100% attendance, 3000 house points in a week or something because I don't know. Which is a bit annoying but I kind of get it because they can't exactly say in the newsletter or on Facebook that they took all the children with mental health problems on a trip and include photos. It would be nice to know if my dc might qualify at a later date or if they work harder or something or if it's just for children who meet certain criteria. And obviously I'm not complaining that my dc don't go on these trips because of they don't qualify then that's fine.

But this time my ds3 has been invited to go on a trip. And the school still won't tell me why! It could be because he is pupil premium, or SEN or struggling in a subject or been exceptionally well behaved. When I was at school of someone important was visiting they would send the naughtiest children on a trip somewhere but I don't think the schools are allowed to do that anymore! We've just been told that he has been chosen to do this activity.

Why does it matter to you?

Never heard of this. Seems a bit weird. My DC are at 2 different state secondaries. It was either open to the whole year group/ specific subject eg. GCSE geography - or 'first come, first served'.

When I was at school of someone important was visiting they would send the naughtiest children on a trip somewhere but I don't think the schools are allowed to do that anymore!

Technically they were never allowed to do it, and some schools absolutely still do.

Just ask if there was a criteria that means your DC was selected for this trip - they’ll not tell you about other trips they weren’t chosen for, but should tell you about this one

Is it a deprived area or are they young carers ?!?

Certain trips are part funded by external companies or organisations, who will only have a certain capacity, so it will be offered to specific students. E.g. if it's a trip to a construction company, they might pick a handful of students they think might be interested in construction. Or they might pick who they think would benefit the most

We don't have this, either kids go on trips or they don't. Sometimes a few are chosen and it's done fairly, just picked. Eg school said they had a limited number of tickets to go and see Macbeth in London. I put Ds2 name down he didn't get it, no problem. I don't have a problem with this. Your situation sounds a bit weird and different.

We are encouraged to have eg 50% minimum pupil premium invited, and ensure a representative mix of other criteria.

And then parents kick off if their kid isn’t chosen, and you can’t very well say “your kid is appalling and I’m not giving up my own time to spend time with him in an unconfined environment” or “the kid he sits next to is a young carer and we recently sent the family a food parcel to get them through the weekend, so a trip to the museum seems more useful for him” or whatever.

Just be glad trips are being run and accept it’s been very carefully considered.

I think some of the posters are missing that they won't even tell you why your DS has been selected. I agree that you have no right to know about other children or other trips but you certainly have the right to know about your child.

I'd want to know!
I guess I am just naturally curious, especially when it comes to my own children.

Edit: I meant to quote the post below the OP!

Thank you. I don't mind not knowing about other children but I would like to know why ds3 is going. Especially as DS2 hasn't been chosen. Thankfully ds2 isn't bothered but if it was the other way around, ds3 would be jealous and it would be nice to be able to say that ds2 was going because he was older/was interested in construction/had 100% attendance.

It can be quite complicated.

I used to work as a maths teacher.

There were maths trips that were funded for PP only, maths competitions for girls only, etc.

We often tried to even it out a bit so we knew that for example Fred George Phil and Helen had already gone on a trip to a maths competition so would select the next 4 down for the spring competition.

You can't really say to parents your child is 4th best in the year and hasn't had a trip yet.

My guess is that it is pupil premium kids, who's families can't/ don't take them places, so it's done to even out the cultural capital. Obviously they're not going to put that on the news letter though, as it's a bit "look at the poor children". Even the parents won't necessarily have been told why their kid was selected, as there's not really a tactful way to do that, and it would be a shame if the kid missed out because the family were to embarrassed to accept the place.

My DD was selected to go on a trip to a local University last year, for raising aspirations.

We think its connected to her pupil premium... but she gets it as a Forces child, not income related

My dc are young carers and have been on a trip to a university (funded by some initiative to get those in disadvantage groups to think about going to university).
There was also a maths trip to an aquarium (they chose not to go on this) funded for pp, young carers and dc who have sen.
It is never disclosed on the news letter why this particular group went as I suppose that will single them out as being 'different '.

I find it odd that they won’t tell you why your own kid was chosen. But you have correctly identified why they don’t publish why other people’s kids have been chosen.

that said, there may not be a set criteria. I work in a prep and we frequently get invitations to take small groups to on trips. Some are competitions (sports and maths usually) so we tend to select the children strongest in that subject. Others might be art or drama or science based so we might take children who enjoy that subject. Some might be random (engineering, problem solving) and honestly we might just select a group who haven’t been picked for anything else so they get a chance to do something nice! Or kids who have had a rough time recently or something like that. So it may just be someone thought your kid would enjoy it, hadn’t been selected for X y or z and there’s no other reason to tell you.

This is the problem with lots of these funding things. As a cohort, statistically PP pupils will more likely come from families who haven’t been to uni and may not aspire to do so. It makes sense to target them for a trip like this. But within that group, some will have parents who went to uni and already have aspirations to go, so the trip is not especially valuable to them, and there may be a non PP child who’d benefit more. But the school are just doing their best and it’s a
blunt tool to target the right group and hopefully has some benefit to some of them!

I'm not being an arse, I promise, @elliejjtiny but have you asked?

Telling you why your child was selected is fine, but parents/children will extrapolate and look at the other children going and assume it's the same.
The problem is it lays open the child to say "you're <insert reason> the teacher told my mum" and that can cause issues.

Once it's out there, parents and children will talk and it becomes general knowledge quickly.

It might be "nice" but it's your job as a parent to teach them they won't always get what the other has.

@CurlewKate yes I did ask. Got a vague reply back about a small number of children being selected.

@MargaretThursday (love your username, one of my favourite books). I see your point, that would probably happen. Although I find if some parents don't know things they will guess, get it wrong and spread rumours. My MIL does that too, it's incredibly irritating.

@elliejjtiny "@CurlewKate yes I did ask. Got a vague reply back about a small number of children being selected."

What did they say when you asked about the selection criteria?