Walked out of A and E after 9 hours and only triage completed !!

[bumblebee1000]

Don't consider myself at all naive but haven't been anywhere near a hospital for any urgent treatment in over 30 years. Rang 111 yesterday due to constant headaches for almost a week, was advised to attend local hospital [london]. Queue out the door, after 7 hours was seen by a doctor for appx 1 minute who said they will want to do blood tests and possibly an mri scan, was told blood tests could be a further 5 hours, a scan possibly a further 7 to 9 hours so in total basically 24 hours. I couldn't wait so told nurse I was leaving and will follow up with GP and a wealthy old friend has offered to pay the £300 for the mri scan which is lovely. I was stunned to see so many people sleeping on floor and who had been there for hours before me. Then a man went beserk and grabbed a fire extinguisher and smashed in the windows of the reception area, coffe machine and a door, police already on site as were with a chap in hancuffs.....awful. I did notice that many names were called and nobody responded so assume they just left without informing anyone, I felt informing them of my departure, was the least I could do so time isn't wasted on no shows etc.

Gosh, I really hate these threads on MN, OP did everything right; pharmacist > 111 > A&E.
People on here literally only want you to turn up at A&E when you’re already dead.

My friend was so ill they wanted to go home, luckily their spouse refused badgered the team four times because they knew something was terribly wrong, hallucinations, loss of speech, managed to chase up a doctor twice. It was meningitis.

That's the point that people are missing, if you're that unwell it must be torture sitting in a noisy waiting room on a hard chair or the floor. I can imagine many desperately ill people just wanting to be in their own home and bed even if it risks their life.

I went to my local A&E with breathing difficulties and was there for 8 hrs and had only been triaged. I also left and they made me sign a waiver against medical advice but they said it could be another 4 hrs before I was seen and I had the kids at home. My GP advised me to try the hospital in the next town as they were quicker. I was admitted to a ward within an hour with pneumonia. I’ll use that hospital going forward but it’s mad that there is such a difference.

No, privatisation is why the NHS is in this sorry state.

Totally, so why don't the nhs sort this out and make more GP appts available? Invest in primary care more?

If I had a bad headache for a week I could see a GP in 3 or 4 weeks time. Maybe I would think that wasn't soon enough. Maybe I'd be right, maybe I'd be wrong. Maybe I would just feel I couldn't cope with the pain any longer and wouldn't be prepared to wait that long. Maybe I'd be worried I'd be dead before then.

You can't blame individuals for a broken system. If people had the choice of ringing up and trotting to their local GP for an appt that day or even the next day don't you think they'd prefer that?

111 always tell you to go to A&E, they are part of the massive problem A&E face because everything is scripted.

Once you attend A&E, unless you decide to discharge yourself, the medical staff obviously have a duty of care to ensure your problems are investigated and treated accordingly. Majority of the time you'll spend hours and hours waiting and having tests only to be discharged to your GP.

I work for the NHS and it's in dire straights, everyone knows that.

GP surgeries do have allocated slots for the 111 service. Not many people know this. 111 also has the ability to send out a practitioner to check blood pressures etc but they don't often make it known, you have to push them to send someone out to you. They also have Drs who can call you back to assess you over the phone and do a prescription if necessary. This will be sent electronically to a pharmacy for you.

There is also urgent care facilities to utilise instead of going to A&E. if they think you need to go to hospital they will send you.

It makes me very sad to see the NHS is the way it is.

If it was an emergency after triage you'd have been sent to the front of the queue.

I wish they'd sent my dd to the front of the queue after triage when she had multiple clots in her lungs and nearly died. Chest pain and breathlessness but her obs were fine and ecg was fine and nobody thinks holistically. So 8 hr wait to find you're at risk at dropping dead any second. Oh and the triage nurse was rolling at her eyes openly at me when dd was telling her how painful it was, you could see she thought dd was a timewaster.

Then 4 days after diagnosis and now on blood thinners dd wakes up screaming in chest pain. I drover her to a&e, 7 am in the morning. Told the nurse on the front desk (and it is a nurse) that dd had blood clots and I was worried she was going to have a cardiac arrest and we were directed to take a seat. DD was screaming for 30 mins before being triaged! Even though they knew her medical history! She was vomiting in pain.

So yeah, don't bank on skipping the queue.

I’m not sure. GP to CT scan and results without waiting worked without A&E here

For headaches over time

I had the same with my PE - sent home and told it was all in my head after nearly a full day of waiting. Had to use an ambulance the next time - not a word about their mis-diagnoses a few days before that could have killed me!

I know it is a broken system but it is deadly and the people in A&E don't seem to be equipped to recognise PE in women, that is for sure.

Last time I had to go to A&E with DD just before Christmas there was triage at the door in the sort of porch area between double doors. They were turning some people away - some being sent to GP walk in service nearby, some being told to see their GP and in a few cases told to go home, rest and take paracetamol. This was a huge city hospital so may be a different system from some of the smaller ones.

DD had 3 broken toes and a query about another breakage further up the foot so was seen within 3 hours, x-rayed, foot bound up prescription pain killers and crutches - we were in there a total of 3 hours and 45 minutes. They even gave her pain killers in the waiting room after we'd been there about an hour. It was still crowded but the immediate triage and close by walk in GP certainly made a difference and probably dissuaded people who simply had a sore throat or similar from attending unnecessarily again.

I think I'd be upset at a 9 hour wait though and I have a feeling sitting on a hard chair in a busy noisy waiting room would not help my headache

I can guarantee you this is not true

How about you wind it in because you are coming across as cranky and peculiar

The blame lies with 111

The clue is in the name.

ACCIDENT (RTA, unstoppable blood loss, unable to breathe, possible heart attack /stroke, complex fractures.)

EMERGENCY* *any or all of the above.

Almost everything else is for a GP.

If someone is VERY worried they can ask for an emergency same day appt at their GP and turn up at reception to plead their case.

An ongoing headache for a week is none of the above.

If it was a stroke, it would be too late or there'd be other signs. Brain tumour needs scans etc.

My London hospital has a ACU. Saw my GP 3 o’clock yesterday who called the ACU - by four I was having my blood done and within a couple of hours I’d seen two doctors and had a CT scan medication and sent home so yes sometimes it can be excellent.

I agree. Primary care is on its knees, and there is underfunding to a point but also a lot of people who don’t even try their GP first as, in their eyes, what they’re visiting with is an emergency. Hence more education needed. A&E reception must see lots of attendees like this, but unfortunately can’t turn them away because they have to be seen by Triage first, and receptionists obviously can’t determine what needs urgent treatment. Things are worse now than 14 years ago because we have a population of 70million compared to about 60million back then. More people identifying as ‘ill’ now so more pressure on GP surgeries and healthcare in general. Huge increase in visits to GP for mental health.

The root of the problem is that 111 is simply not a sufficient alternative for a GP appointment. "They" have tried to deal with the problems with accessing GPs by various methods (receptionist gatekeepers, seeing a nurse before a GP will consent to see you, go to your local chemist shop and wave your wounds over the counter at them, appointment lottery at 8am). A massive call centre full of admin types who follow a script is cheap. But invariably you are told to go to A&E because they do not have the skills to discern a probably cause of a symptom or the actual severity of it. The call centre has to massively over-cautious to cover themselves - if hundreds of people started dying of strokes because they were told to drink more water and take an aspirin we would be up in arms and calling for the end of 111. As it is, there is no point in using the telephone service.

A&E has been a disaster for a long time. Not a Tory supporter by a long shot, but it was pretty shit under Labour as well. Blair started the waiting time targets that led to ambulances queuing outside as the clock didn't start until a patient was unloaded and handed over. FIL died in a ambulance parked in a queue. MIL went out of her mind.

I had to go to A&E a few weeks ago due to an infection post surgery, it was a bank holiday (Easter)so I couldn’t wait to see my GP and risk getting sepsis. Luckily I was seen pretty quickly but was still in A&E for 3 hours, I witnessed a lot of very ill people waiting to be seen as well as a few people that probably shouldn’t have been there but over all most people there did need to be there. I can see why some people get angry and frustrated, being made to sit on uncomfortable metal chairs or on the floor when you’re in pain is not ideal. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would want to put the self through a trip to A&E unless they really needed too. Sadly sometimes 111 direct people to A&E when realistically they could be seen by their GP the next day. We used to have a out of hours GP unit but that’s now gone so if it’s a weekend or bank holiday a lot of people end up being sent to A&E.

If you can walk out of A&E you probably didn’t need to be there. Your GP (or possibly you using the online booking service) could have accessed blood tests and an MRI in a non-urgent capacity.

@PanicAttax glad you’re still here. Sadly many people survive despite the nhs. Certainly feels that way.

ODFO
I had a pulmonary embolism and had to drive myself to A&E the first time. Stop peddling rubbish.

The root of the problem is that 111 is simply not a sufficient alternative for a GP appointment. "They" have tried to deal with the problems with accessing GPs by various methods (receptionist gatekeepers, seeing a nurse before a GP will consent to see you, go to your local chemist shop and wave your wounds over the counter at them, appointment lottery at 8am). A massive call centre full of admin types who follow a script is cheap. But invariably you are told to go to A&E because they do not have the skills to discern a probably cause of a symptom or the actual severity of it. The call centre has to massively over-cautious to cover themselves - if hundreds of people started dying of strokes because they were told to drink more water and take an aspirin we would be up in arms and calling for the end of 111. As it is, there is no point in using the telephone service.

Agree.

It's no unreasonable for the OP (or anyone) to use the service provided and to follow the advice they give. All the ticking off in the world about 'if you are still breathing you shouldn't be in A&E' doesn't negate the fact that the OP followed the path of advice she was given - from pharmacist to 111 to A&E and did not receive any actual care at all.

If she's not seen the hospital inside of 30 years then it's understandable she doesn't have the inside knowledge that 111 is useless and their advice should be ignored.

It's an absolute mess that now means, unless you are a frequent flyer, navigating the health system is a total minefield for most people - and maybe even for those that unfortunately do have to use it frequently.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/22/risk-averse-nhs-111-sends-more-callers-to-ae-than-previous-service

'I couldn't wait'
Errr why not? Had somewhere urgent to be?

When I was in hospital recently in the bed opposite me, a girl was being treated for symptoms of a persistant headache . There are lots of reasons for a persistant headache mostly trivial but some serious . Blood tests and MRI are the only way of ruling it out miserable as a&e is .

Mt neighbour has been in A and E for 24 hours. He is now waiting for a bed. H has been told there are 50 people in front of him.

The OP may have been directed to A+E because something she said in response to the questions asked triggered concerns about an incipient stroke or something. it's interesting that the pharmacist advised calling 111 instead of seeing a GP- suggests there was a symptom there which was a cause for concern. Hope you get treated soon OP, or that the pesky headache just goes away by itself - but don't ignore it.