If you thought a friend's son was a psychopath WWYD?

[Bansheed]

i know a 12 year old boy well, who can be devastatingly charming. He also lies, watches porn, manipulates has always been in trouble at school and recently has started the most horrendous bullying campaign at school against another boy in his year. (I also know he did this to another boy last year but not to this level as it blew up much quicker).

His mother is lovely and has three other fantastic children but this son has always been troubled. However, i think it is much worse than that.

She (of course) is in complete denial, thinks he just needs support and has been in tears over his behaviour, but she has minimised it. But i now know the extent of the recent bullying think voice messages telling the other boy to kill himself, sustained campaigns of alienation, gay rumours.

She lets him do what he wants, has self-diagnosed some sort of aversion disorder, so let's him pretty much do what he wants. In order to help her, i have suggested an online counselling service, with both carrot and stick incentives, one where she connects with the therapist too but am at a loss. But i truly believe he is dangerous.

The other parents haven't gone to the police and the school is trying to handle it but we live in a small town and there are not many options. I believe he is about to be expelled.

I do not say too much to my friend but has anyone else had experience of this. What sort of help is available? What have you said openly to your friend?

This is affecting so many people, so badly. I am involved as we are a tight nit community and i have known all involved well, all their lives. My ND son is in the same year and believes the bully is a 'great friend'. I can't even tell him how bad things are, as he would go straight back to the boy in question and give him more ammunition to protect himself and attack others.

My friends is at a loss but i really do not know how direct to be with her. Or whether to be. WWYD

They don't diagnose anyone under 18 with antisocial personality disorder (psychopathy), but they can be given a diagnosis of conduct disorder if that's appropriate.

If you're able to, try to talk to her about how it would be in his best interests to have him properly assessed (probably privately due to NHS failure) so that she can receive appropriate guidance. It will also help his victims.

I think you need to take a step back and see that this is a 12 year old kid. He doesn't sound like like a psychopath (which is a massive word to use). He just sounds like lots of young people. Some can be dick heads for a few years but it doesn't make them a psychopath.

Thatt is really interesting to know, thank you.

I think telling another child to kill themselves is more than just "being a dick".

Op, I understand your desire to do something here but it would be at the risk of losing a friend, which for you might be ok, but for his mum might be devastating. Wait and see what happens at school, if he is expelled then there may well need to be local authority/social work intervention and the choice to escalate to CAMHS or another service may well be taken out of her hands anyway.

You'd be surprised how many kids throw comments like that out there.

I am hoping that social work/ CAMHS get involved to help them all.

Unfortunately "kill yourself" or "KYS" seems to be an absolutely normal throwaway insult with some teens at the moment. I don't think they think through what they're actually saying.

The boy seems to be a bully and vindictive but not on the scale of a psychopath.

Perhaps a move to a new school to separate him from the child he is bullying would be a good thing and a wake up call, if he's in control of his actions. If there's neuro diversity going on, which you seem to imply, then he needs support to understand his emotions and actions.

How do you know so much about someone else's child bit creepy.
TBH you need to but out this is not your family dont get involved.

Are you saying you know more than the mother about what the bullying involves? I think you are massively overstepping for your own sense of drama quite honestly. You can't do anything to someone for 'being a psychopath' you can only go by what they have actually done, and lots of 12 year olds are right little shits. His mother needs a good supportive friend and if you can't do that without embroiling yourself, since you have no useful input, I suggest you stay away.

What qualifies you to diagnose psychopaths?

If he's trying to bully another child into suicide then I hope someone is coming down on him like a ton of bricks.
My son bullied someone at school (no where near to this extent) His mum needs to take away all privileges.. My son ended up with nothing in his room apart from homework and a bed, I even took his Nike trainers away and he had to make do with plain primark pumps. Harsh but I will not have my child being the source of someone else's misery.. All sounds harsh but it worked. He's 22 and lovely now.
How do you know he watches porn?
In my opinion 12 is to young for unmonitored use of a smart phone, does your friend allow this?

What is it with mumsnet minimising fucking awful behaviour of children, labelling these kids as 'normal' or 'possibly ND'

The lad bullies other children and tells people to kill themselves.

That's not normal. If you've got boys yourself and this is 'normal' for your kids, or your kids did this and you put this down to 'dickish behaviour' then quite frankly that's shit parenting.
The boy sounds troubled, but awful. A crime is still a crime, he's 12 years old. Old enough to know better and his parent(s) are failing him by being in denial.

OP, his parents are failing him. His parents are being totally irresponsible here. I'd cut off the friendship and just tell her. This is not someone you want your boy to hang around with. He sounds awful.

Well no he's not a psychopath because no children can be diagnosed with psychopathy... it's sounds like he has serious issues and needs professional support tho! U are right to be concerned but calling him a psychopath is a bit much. Teens can be very self centred. They can also have extremely poor impulse control. He really needs proper help!