Nearly £9000 more spent on private secondary pupils than state pupils

[SluggyMuggy]

Research from University College London that found £12,200 a year is the average spending on a privately educated primary pupil, compared with £4,800 on a state pupil. For secondary, it’s £15,000 compared with £6,200.

This entrenches inequality as private pupils are given far more resources towards their education.

Any moves?

So you would close all private schools or tax them out of existence?

Make it illegal to offer private tuition? Imprison those that continue?

Set a level of educational achievement that no-one can exceed? How?

Steal from those who have more money than, say, You? Pour it all into the State Schools?

Wailing "it's not faaaiiir" and throwing out vague nonsense as qouted above doesn't wash.

Yawn.

You have so far not proposed a single solution to the problem. That soapbox must be getting a bit worn now. Tell us all, given that you started this thread, quite how you propose to redress inequality. Because, we're all ears as to what your proposals are given that you've started this thread.

Other people have... now it's your turn @SluggyMuggy. Other than just setting off a thread, with an article from 2016, that says that the inequality between schools has risen because private schools have built more facilities and charger higher fees... to compete with each other. I dare you to say something of substance.

It's not just funding though.

My nephew's secondary school only had 25% of pupils speaking English as a first language. We're not talking rich bilingual kids, we're talking about people in highly deprived communities that don't really speak English. That makes teaching very challenging.

Frankly parents are also one of the key drivers of educational achievement. Disruptive kids who aren't encouraged to take school seriously can help to perpetuate inequality.

It's not as simple as private v state, there's probably more inequality between some state schools.

It's not as simple as private v state, there's probably more inequality between some state schools.

Yes, there is. I’ve pointed this out in posts above, complete with links showing the huge disparities in funding across regions, but OP is conveniently overlooking those. Apparently the cause of inequality lies squarely with private schools though (despite only teaching 6% of children).

It's easy to be generous with other people's money.

It's easy to decide that other people's children should be used to raise standards in poorly performing schools.

People spend money on what they value most. In many cases that is education and healthcare. It manifests differently- sometimes it's on a house in a good catchment, sometimes it is on private education, or healthier food or private dental care or culturally enriching trips or hobbies.

I don't want everyone to be the same. I want people to have a decent chance at life but ultimately we all have to make the best of what we have and choose how we spend our resources (time and money) in a way which reflects our values and priorities.

the government could choose not to raise income tax, and instead raise tax on dividends etc.
the government could choose not to siphon off £37bn in fake PPE schemes which merely served as money laundering tools for themselves.
there are ways to fund in public services including schools. But you need a government that chooses to do this over the current band of thieves in power.
and if there was VAT on private school fees right now, not one penny would be used to improve the lot of the children at state schools. The government would rather see everyone, and I mean everyone, but themselves in poverty.

You can’t remove inequality. Someone in Africa would bemoan the life you live day to day - so what… should you give up your life?

it’s not possible. It’s not reserved for humans either, it happens in every walk of life: birds, mammals, insects, even plants for Christ’s sake.

you’re an idealist. There is no such thing as equality - it’s a fantasy.

’we should spend more on state schools’ .. where is this money tree that you have your eyes set on or are you contributing to the state school budgets?

I mean, what did you think the school fees pay for?

State secondaries around here at dire. Dropping subjects due to lack of funds.

We felt we had no choice but to pay so that our DC had a full range of subjects to choose from at secondary level.

Well said

What a refreshing post 👏👏👏👏

Well this thread isn’t quite going the way OP wanted …..me thinks !

Thankfully we don’t all have our luvvie blinkers on like OP

Your last paragraph will be deeply problematic for our socialist comrades: everyone must be the same. Although obvs this is disapplied to union bosses, party leaders, etc. I am waiting to hear how RR will deal with inequalities of intelligence, talent, ambition, determination, etc.

Yes indeed.

It’s very easy for people who live near good state schools to criticise the choices of those who choose to go private, but I bet if they had the option to do the same when faced with a failing state school they would do the same.

i had the misfortune to go to an appalling state secondary - a GCSE pass rate of 8%, a headteacher signed off sick due to the stress of trying to keep the place functioning - it ultimately closed down 3 years after I left. I’ll be damned if I’m putting my kids through the same experience.

We are in the very fortunate position of being able to afford private if we choose (kids currently in a good state primary) and in all likelihood we will go down that route as the catchment state secondary is horrific - a few months ago 2 12 year olds were caught having sex on school premises, filmed by other pupils and the video circulated throughout the school. The police and social services were involved.

One key problem is that some people hear “private school” and instantly think they’re all like (and cost as much as) Eton, etc. The vast majority are nothing like that and serve a local community and whilst they’re by no means inexpensive, most of them charge annual fees that wouldn’t even get you a term at Eton.

Life isn’t fair.

Dragging everyone down to a level you feel comfortable with is the point in history where communism always comes unravelled.

I've got experience of both.

The things that are better in private (not all are better than all state!) are not the things that cost money!

Disruptive kids are expelled.
Longer days.
More homework.
Subject qualified teachers in all subjects.
Broad subject choice.
Parents who want their kids to get the highest grades they are capable of.
Peer support to be academic.
Sports teams.
Decent lunches.
More detailed report cards.
More focus on university admission.
Streaming classes.

I wish someone would run private schools that just do the basics well without the flashy stuff.

@CaveMum Literally no one thinks all private schools are like Eton. Most of us know where our local private schools are.

My kids current primary has one, as did one of the secondaries we looked at. Why would that be unbelievable?

I went to school (inner city comp in the mid 1990s. When I arrived at university three other girls went to public school. Posh accents and ‘mummy bought me this and that’. Nice girls - different life experience to me. Anyway one of them got a C in French at A level and she was in a class of ONE - so one to one for two years solid. She ended up doing the same course as me who had nothing. Not that I give a damn but of course money gives you privilege.

So what do you suggest? Even if there were no private schools, people with more money would have more money to spend on their children and would do so - whether tutoring, buying a home in a better area, educational holiday camps abroad etc. More money also means ability to potentially create a very supportive home situation. And yes, with proper planning, wealth begets wealth. Private school or not

Dd too - state SEN provision had a lovely cocker spaniel who visited every week! 😍

Could not agree more with this post.

The majority of other countries levy tax on dividends and capital gains derived on shares listed on their stock exchange.

If you don’t live in the UK and own UK shares you pay zero tax on dividends and capital gains when you dispose of them. UK tax residents get shafted in the other hand.

You can live in Monaco, Cayman etc and pay f all in tax on the money you take out of the UK. Yes, the UK business has paid its VAT, Corp tax, employer contributions etc, but the offshore owner of the shares does not pay any tax on their income or gains in a tax haven. Be mindful of lower taxing jurisdictions too, especially those that have max-tax deals (Guernsey, Jersey, Gibraltar).

The foreign investors are literally asset stripping the UK, and we the UK tax payers are paying the price of this.

Save your venom towards full time working parents and net-contributors to the UK who need wrap around care in order to work and pay tax, and instead redirect your anger towards the policy makers who are in the pockets or off-payrolls of offshore investors.

Just to add - why do you think lots of NON-UK tax resident people love to own our UK football clubs?!?…

Because they’re is f all tax when they receive dividends from or sell off their shares in them!

The foreign investors are not stupid, but our policy makers are, hence why UK tax residents are being absolutely shafted…

Actually I do think your being a bit overdramtic about it.

We have many children at school with very bad allergies, needing to carry epi pens. We don't and haven't ever banned all the items each child is allergic to. We even have a walnut tree in the grouds that one child has to avoid. You mange the risks, they can't avoid life.

I'm sure if a child was allergic to dogs most high schools are large enough just to have them vist a part of the site your child wouldn't go to. These things can be managed in order to help everyone.

I live in a grammar area and wish I didn't. The catchments are small, which just means the house prices immediately around them are astronomical. The parents who want their kids to go get tutors, so that limits to the ones that can afford them. The cars you see at pick up are high end, not hatch backs. It's certainly not equal access state education for the brightest. It also means for the rest of us whose kids won't be going, there is less choice and resources.