Sad to see my little nephew shamed when disciplined

[TulipPower1981]

I spent a weekend with family and I noticed my brother uses shame to discipline his kids. It’s heartbreaking to see as he has the most wonderful little children (5 & 3) little boys. I love them so so so so much. I can’t bear to see them shamed when they’re told off. It’s so disheartening. How do I approach this with my brother?

What do you mean? Do you have an example?

You dont. His parenting method. Not yours. Use your own methods on your own children

Unless you believe the child is being abused you keep out of it.

You're going to need to give an example. But unless it's absolutely horrific you stay out of it if you want to maintain a relationship with your brother.

"You must never tell grandma to fuck off. You should be ashamed of yourself".
Okay and thoroughly deserved.

"You are disgusting for telling grandma to fuck off. She will hate you for ever".
Not okay.

Ben you’re selfish because you won’t help Tom get dressed. Stop being selfish and help your little brother.

Ben you’re so silly, you’re such a silly boy. Now stop it, stop being silly. (Child messing around putting shoes on).

These are little examples, it’s a bit non stop, it’s not looking at the behaviour it’s shaming him into behaving. He’s actually a really sensible little boy.

I think you're coming from a good place, but in the grand scheme of things this isn't the end of the world. I don't think you can broach this without causing a pretty big rift between you and your brother. Doesn't sound like he's shouting at them or being abusive or name calling.

Perhaps not perfect parenting in terms of telling the child he is silly rather than the behaviour but I have to say it's pretty common! He's a Dad of 2 young boys; he's probably stressed, tired, exhausted - parenting is tough. I think you're wrong to be judging your brother's parenting. You said yourself he has two wonderful little children so he must be doing something right. I suggest you leave well alone, it's really not up to you OP. I'm wondering if you have children yourself?

I have strong feelings about this after years of having my self esteem battered by my mother and sister. They are shamers. My sister for example likes to sit tiny children on the naughty step, get right up close to their fact and hiss at them that they're 'silly little girls/boys'. Or give them nicknames like 'ooo I think I'll be calling you Moody Margo from now on, what a moany pants!'. Once she even filmed herself taunting my 2 year old and sent it to me to show that she had a handle on the situation when he was having a tantrum. It was the first time he'd spent a day away from me, we had a new baby at home so she took him to hers for a play. He was refusing to share a toy with another child and she decided giving him nicknames and telling him he was a 'horrid little boy being silly' was the way to deal with it. Not saying he should have been allowed to snatch toys by any stretch, but filming a sobbing toddler whilst you call them names was really shocking to me.

It's nasty, bullying behaviour and I hate it. I dislike it in people of any age tbh, but seeing it in a grown woman towards a child makes me MAD. She doesn't spend time with my children without supervision for this reason. I should have been more on my guard, but I was hopeful that they'd changed.

Unfortunately, that's a situation where I'm the parent deciding what's I want for my kids. Much harder to be the aunt. To be honest, name calling whilst vile isn't illegal. So there's not much you can do. He's parenting his way.

Can you model an alternative approach either with your own kids if you have them or with your nephew?

I have two DC too, older. I have worked very hard on my self worth and their’s. I know my brother and I grew up in an environment where shaming was common.

I now have strong views, they are delightful amazing little boys. But a little scared of their dad, they really look up to him though.

I know it’d cause a big rift. And yes I do model better parenting I think! It’s hard work I know.

My brother seeks a lot of external validation, but he’s changed a lot since he’s had kids and is less like that.

No one is perfect but I hate seeing these on-going little bits of shaming that I know will eat away at their self-worth.

@TulipPower1981 how close are you to your brother? Would he be receptive to you talking about how you've changed your parenting style from the one you experienced? It's not an easy thing to do, takes a lot of motivation. Are there resources which helped you which you could signpost him to?

I worshipped my brother, and we got on well. If he'd have come to me with well intentioned brotherly advice I'd have been receptive to it. My sister however... I would feel was judging me if she started offering me tips on parenting.

I don't like using selfish, that's getting a bit personal and a big word to put on a child.

Silly is a total non-issue imo

It depends what they're like. Loving parents who spend time with their children but missed the mark in discipline = ok, we all do

Crap parents = more going on and right to be concerned

@wellthatwasanicesurprise Im not sure, he can bully me sometimes although that’s changed as I see them less.

I will have a think, I tell my nephews each time I see them how much I love them, I play with them a lot and use praise of their behaviour. They re really wonderful little people. So a lot js very right, their mother for one is exceptional my SIL.

My DB adores them but when they misbehave or he wants them to do something he shames them. Wish I had more examples. Just breaks my heart for them. No one is perfect. I’ve worked a lot on breaking cycles/family trauma. I can try set an example when we are together.

I think you just keep out of it, he may well disapprove of how you discipline yours, but knows better than to say!

He might disagree 100%! I don’t think he does though, although he’s firmer than me! Definitely got better boundaries in place out of fear though. I think with my two I have boundaries too just enforce in a different way by spending far much time probably trying to reason with them!

“You’re acting silly” or “your behaviour is selfish”, fine. “You are silly” or “you are selfish”, not fine imo.

agree. The wording completely changes the message from 'this is a behaviour you can control and change' to 'this is who you are'.

Yes perhaps this is it, he’s labelling the child not the behaviour. Also I don’t think it’s for the older child to get the younger child ready esp when they’re 5 and 3 years old. The 3 year old is very independent and capable.

i’m not perfect. Perhaps I need to just suggest labelling the behaviour to him and not the child, perhaps if I can sow the seed.

Definitely mind your own business. Nothing to see here

Don't offer unsolicited parenting advice.

If he asks you "What did you do when your kids did X?" then you can answer with something that worked for you, he might use it, he might not.

If you think there's family history stuff going on you could open up a conversation about that "Do you remember when we were kids, and dad used to say/do X?" but DON'T bring it back round to his parenting. That's his decision to make, or not. If you must mention parenting then it's fine to say something like "When I had my kids it was really important to me not to do X" as long as it's in context e.g. related to something you realised about your own childhood, rather than a pointed obvious direction to him.

I also think it's fine to say "I find it helpful to label the behaviour not the child" or "I read this thing about labelling the behaviour, not the child" but I would try to avoid doing this in direct response to him labelling a child - it will come across as pointed rather than helpful.

He may well think you're a terribly indulgent/lax parent or something! Or there might be something that you do that makes him cringe. We are all doing our best. And I tend to think if we are doing better than the generation before then it's all good.