Permanent exclusion

[MarilynAlice]

My son was permanently excluded from school 5 months ago I have been fighting it ever since as they were discriminating him and manipulating suspensions. I took it to an independent panel amd they quashed the decision of the governing body and directed they review the exclusion again because of how flawed it was. At the independent review they completely made up a new lie that my child strangled another child, they have literally re wrote incident forms and got the child to re write their statement nearly 5 months down the line saying the strangling took place, they have submitted these to the reconsideration panel, surely this is not allowed.

And keeping pupils in a setting that cannot meet their needs causes significantly detrimental outcomes for them and every one else. It's the system that causes the damage - not the school exclusion. In an effective system, the exclusion wouldn't need to happen and genuine conversations about meeting pupils needs can happen rather than an insistence that mainstream must be failing.

@MonsteraAddict you won't like me saying this, but you're exhibiting a common unconscious bias that parents of SEND children encounter all too frequently. An implicit but untrue belief that children with autism and adhd do not belong in mainstream settings. And should be somewhere else (where that is though is never specified as these places do not in fact exist).

This mindset leads to a form of fatalism and impatience with the child that is counterproductive. Lots of parents in this situation will have spent time listening by up the hand wringing and protestation that everything that can be done has been done (with a side order of change resistance meaning that reasonable adjustments are poorly implemented and/or not given enough time).

My son is a case in point. He was written off on the second day of Y1 when to few cycle of suspensions leading to permanent exclusion began. The HT made clear on the third day that permanent exclusion was on the table, and tried to make us feel grateful that she hadn't already gone there. She kept saying things remarkably similar to the things you are saying about mainstream schools and their limitations.

As it happens she was wrong on every count.

My son is thriving in a mainstream school. The difference? A leadership team setting a positive example for the teaching staff, a competent SENDCo who secured a good EHCP with a one-to-one TA also competent, and a whole of school approach celebrating and accepting neurodivergence.

Frankly, views like the ones you currently hold are part of the puzzle that needs addressing if we are serious about meaningful inclusion. And permanent exclusion should be off the table.

One of the biggest barriers to change is the institutional reluctance of many in the teaching profession to appreciate that what goes on with permanent exclusion involves widespread disability discrimination. This blind spot towards the treatment of autistic and ADHD children arises and flourishes in the gap between how many in the education sector perceive themselves and the wider virtue of their actions and profession, and the reality of the educational provision provided to the children concerned. When you push for accountability, you hit a wall of hurt feelings and truth rejection, because it's just too hard for them to accept what is happening (and their role in it). But unless people in the education sector lower their defences, there can be no progress. We need only to look to the history of teaching, and the practices it has left behind, to realise that the journey never ends.

Or we just keep writing off children as the naughty ones who deserve to be exiled from civil society. There's nothing inclusive about exclusion (and the hint is in the meaning of word itself).

It's a practice in our age akin to corporal punishment in the 1950s/60s, and should be banned. There are better ways to deal with these issues, including when a change of school placement is for the best and should be arranged.

I have no idea why you think I believe that neuro divergent children shouldn't be in mainstream. That's not what I believe at all and work tirelessly in education to ensure that the very best provision is given to pupils of all needs, with or without funding. Mainstream settings are not right for every child. Specialist provisions can be profoundly life changing for a small percentage of children.

However, I'm pleased you have found a setting that is right for your child. Something all children deserve.

@MonsteraAddict I think you are proving my point. You're the one defending the exclusion of disabled children from mainstream schools while talking about your preference for alternative provision and what you see as the limitations of mainstream.

Most children with ASD and ADHD fall a long way short of needing specialist provision even if spaces where available in alternative settings, which they are not.

Your reaction (hurt feelings) also neatly demonstrates the issue around the retreat of educators into the virtue of the profession and there intentions, when it is suggested that the outcomes of their methods are harmful. Things can be done differently and perhaps, suspension and exclusion causes significant harm and no good.

I would urge you to read the research I linked to earlier from Birmingham University. And to consider this from the other side of the fence.

@mybeesarealive How much experience do you have of teaching students with ADHD, ASD, AND or ADD?

Parents/researchers often come out with broad brush statements about mainstream teachers being too defensive and unwilling to support children. On the other hand, the parents have absolutely no idea how difficult it is with classes of 32 students and 10 have a diagnosis. With the best will in the world, I cannot provide for all those children's needs. Therefore a specialist provision with smaller classes would be better.

Don't get me started on EHCPs with almost opposite provision I'm supposed to provide in the same room. As the sole adult in the room, parental expectations are usually way off what is reasonable to expect.

Also Birmingham University should research the shit show that is keeping students in mainstream education with no extra funding or support.

We know exclusion is awful for a family, hence not doing it lightly. But when you (or children) are being assaulted daily, and no one is learning anything, there comes a point when exclusions have to happen. If a child hadn't been excluded this year, 31 kids would have learned no maths. This child told me to fuck off every day, wouldn't sit in their seat, assaulted students, tried to assault staff, had every adjustment known for uniform, time out passes, visual TT, calm environment, time with learning support. Yet still this wasn't enough. Why are the other 31 kids not important?

@MultiplaLight I have a great deal of experience educating a child with adhd and ASD. I am the one who had to stop working and experience financial duress to home school when his HT placed him on a part time timetable to keep him offsite. I am the one that had to protect his MH while my own was falling apart.

I can't speak to the situation you had, but if you think that there was nothing you or the school could have done differently, then history will just keep repeating.

You seem not to understand that lashing out is a feature of the disability when baseline anxiety is held at heightened levels for a sustained period of time. You prevent lashing out by dealing with the anxiety.

Government is to blame for funding and resource shortages. Not the children. Not the parents. Not the teachers.

Your school is badly run by its leadership if the SENDCO isn't securing finance through EHCPs and recruiting/training TAs. Yes, there is a shortage of TAs, but if those available are not willing to work at your school, you need to consume why that is, and whether there are underlying issues with the SEND provision making that unattractive to them.

You seem not to understand that lashing out is a feature of the disability when baseline anxiety is held at heightened levels for a sustained period of time. You prevent lashing out by dealing with the anxiety

I perfectly understand this.

But how do you keep the anxiety low for 10 different children with at least 10 different needs, alongside the other 20?

I've read totally opposing EHCPs for kids in the same room. Eg X cannot work in a silent environment, vs Y needs complete silence for independent work.

Many children with ASD, ADHD don't have EHCPs as their need isn't 'bad enough' therefore come with no extra finding yet are expected to be dealt with by the class teacher. However when you read the diagnoses and support plans, it's clear that the need cannot be met without extra work.

TAs aren't willing to work anywhere. It's crap pay, for rubbish hours, as it doesn't fit round school pick up anymore. You get abused daily. We have our TA roles mostly filled, but that doesn't help if no children are entitled to one in the class.

In the case I was talking about, I genuinely don't know what else the school could have done. Every reasonable adjustment was made. The reality was a child who needed a smaller provision and more support. We didn't have the capacity to provide this above what we already were.

You have no right to assert a school is badly run by it's leadership because pupils may not be able to have their needs met in mainstream. You are making ill informed and dangerous armchair judgements. When you have had to run a school do please share your infinite wisdom. The rest of us already doing it day in and day out might, just every now and then, know what education and provision a pupil needs and deserves and sometimes, that might be better provided by specialists. I have led schools and personally taught hundreds of pupils. It's never about giving up on pupils, binning pupils off, hating them and wanting them 'out'. It's about making sure children have what they need for ALL pupils to achieve. But you crack on. Don't let the truth get in your way.

@MultiplaLight but how does exclusion solve any of those problems around funding, motivation, resource etc? It's the apex of a failing system and culture.

@MonsteraAddict If you feel and show this much contempt for parents and their disabled children in your professional life, it's unsurprising to me that you might be using suspension and exclusion as a commonplace tool to manage and shame them. You're also proving my point about the defensive culture that exists within schools that utilise exclusion, and then retreat into virtue signalling around the intrinsic honour of the profession when challenged on this (as a matter of educational policy).

I do find it interesting though that as someone who claims to lead schools, you have resorted to an ad hominem attack on me simply for expressing views with which you disagree. Do you attempt to shame and bully the parents of the children you suspend and exclude in the same way?

I hate to break it to you but you are the modern equivalent of the 1960's teacher who did not want to give up the cane because they found it useful to maintain order and control.

And this thread right here is why we have a huge staffing crisis in schools right now.

Services that used to provide support for families have been cut to the bone. There’s no support out there. Schools pick up the slack as best they can. But they don’t have enough staff or money to meet need. This leads to kids with unmet needs lashing out and behaving in an unsafe way (often towards staff). Parents blame school and staff leave.

We have ten unfilled TA jobs for next year. That’s such a significant number that quite a few kids with EHCPs will not get their required 1 to 1. We’ve advertised a dozen times and had no applications. We’ve added water incentives. Nothing.

Five of those ten jobs were created by parents targeting members of staff and harassing them until they left. Two left because they were assaulted by their one to one students.

While there are some bad apples in teaching it is quite dishonest to pretend that the situation in schools is always the fault of staff. Most schools are in an untenable position because the government has de facto put them in charge of all child welfare without the funds to do it properly.

The whole system is about to come apart at the seams.

Exclusion at least allows the 29 other children to learn.

Exclusion proves a setting cannot meet a need, therefore alternatives have to be found.

I'll not respond to you again following your rudeness towards a fellow teacher poster. You clearly have no idea what it is like to try and teach, how classrooms need order to keep everyone safe, and how SEND is not an excuse for children to do what they like. Ultimately there has to be a point where schools and teachers say enough is enough. I didn't train to babysit kids all day while Johnny trashes the room again. I trained to teach. I'm willing to try my best (within the time and resources available) to achieve this, but I won't be abused or assaulted daily without some kind of consequence for the child. If adults behaved on the street how some children do in school, they'd be imprisoned. We owe it to society that children grow up knowing what behaviour is acceptable towards another human being whether their needs are being met or not.

@MultiplaLight but rudeness towards me from @Ratsoffasinkingsauage

Well said @MultiplaLight

Sorry phone playing up. Was trying to ask if rudeness towards me from @MonsteraAddict is ok though, just because I have a different view?

@Ratsoffasinkingsauage not well said at all. It demonstrates a really poor grasp of autism and adhd, and how the disabilities can be mitigated.@MonsteraAddict wouldn't engage and dismissed the literature on this too. It's depressing TBH. Because the culture around exclusion is so deeply embedded that the only solution I can see is to remove the power altogether because it is abused so frequently. There are indeed cases where a change of setting becomes necessary, but it shouldn't be done through the process of exclusion because the long term effects of it are so profound and damaging. It is like caning because the effects of it stay with the child and their families for life.

One more response..... Correlation does not equal causation.

When you read the research, remember this.

If you knew how much effort it took to permanently exclude, it isn't done lightly. I've never seen a permanent exclusion abused. Instead I've seen children who should have been permanently excluded, go on to ruin the education of hundreds of other children.

I largely agree with the POV from the teachers posting here and you couldn’t pay enough money to make me work in the U.K. education system the way things are at the moment but…. I don’t think you can say you “ seen permanent exclusion abused “ when there are ample examples of schools getting caught off rolling kids, including that head from Educating Essex on the TV.

Except government statistics from the SEND tribunal demonstrate that this belief is wrong as it upheld 36% of disability discrimination claims brought by parents in 22/23.

As I've said, an enormous barrier to change and improvement is the defensive culture and denial of problem prevalent in the education sector.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Could you please clarify: Does your child have an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP)? This significantly impacts the legal duties of both the school and local authority in your situation.

Regardless of whether your child has an EHCP, I wanted to provide some important information about your situation:

When a school suggests Elective Home Education (EHE) as the only option for your child, this is actually a practice known as "off-rolling" and is considered unlawful. Schools cannot remove pupils from their register by pressuring parents to home educate.

It's important to know that your Local Authority has a legal duty under Section 19 of the Education Act 1996 to provide suitable education for children who cannot attend school due to illness, exclusion, or other reasons. This is often referred to as the "Section 19 duty."

If your child is permanently excluded, the LA must provide suitable, alternative full-time education from day 6 of the exclusion.

If your child is struggling in their current school setting, the school and Local Authority should be working together to find appropriate educational provision - this could include alternative provision, part-time timetables with support, or other accommodations before suggesting home education.

If your child does have an EHCP, the local authority has an even stronger legal obligation to secure the special educational provision specified in the plan. The school cannot suggest EHE as an alternative to meeting these needs. Any changes to educational provision should be formally discussed through the EHCP annual review process, with all professionals involved.

You have the right to:

• Request a formal assessment of your child's needs (or an EHCP review if they already have one)
• Ask for written details of the support the school has already provided
• Request information about alternative provision in your area
• Contact your Local Authority's SEND team directly

If you feel you're being pressured to choose EHE, I recommend documenting all communications with the school and raising this with the Local Authority and school governors. You might also consider contacting organisations like IPSEA (Independent Provider of Special Education Advice) for further support.