Kids have just said they want to apply to Cambridge university, what do we do?

[frozendaisy]

Just as the title says really.

Bit of a bolt out of the blue. One us year 10, one year 8.

We have always said, one step at a time, so concentrate on GCSEs, or even just this week's homework.

Not private schooled, fairly bright with hard work top grades, rounded outside interests, part time jobs and volunteer work. Just as a background.

Do we start looking at entrance exam tutors?

Don’t pay attention to pessimistic comments like “there’s only a 10% chance of getting in”, “wait and see how they do at GCSE first”, etc.

I come from a working class background and studied natural sciences at Cambridge, as did my younger brother. I absolutely loved my time there and it’s set me up well for life. The most important thing for me was that my parents had an unwavering belief that I was good enough to make it, and supported me through the process.

If I could condense my advice for the whole lengthy process into bullet points, this is what I would say:

• Fantastic grades are essential. You need top marks across your GCSEs, and top predicted marks across your A-levels. Work hard, consistently, both to ensure that you get the grades and to get used to the academic workload. The earlier you start the better.
• Target your A-levels to your desired degree subject. For example, if you want to do a Physics degree, a good A level selection would be Maths, Further Maths, Physics, and Computer Science. Look on the Cambridge website for the required/recommended A-levels for each degree.
• Learn widely about your chosen subject outside of just the national curriculum. For example, for Physics, you could watch documentaries and read books about physics and its history, read scientific papers and magazines to learn what’s happening in research today, maybe even try to replicate some of the simpler experiments. The Cambridge website has recommended pre-university reading lists for most subjects, which could be a helpful starting point.
• Extra curriculars (sports, debating, etc) are good for showing that you are a well rounded applicant, but remember that the academic subject itself is the most important thing.
• Check out the Sutton Trust Cambridge summer schools: https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/events/summer-schools I attended this the summer between year 12 & 13, I had an absolutely fantastic time and it left me with so much confidence to apply to Cambridge. The summer schools are targeted towards students who come from a background where fewer students go on to study at Cambridge (ie state schools, first in family to go to university, deprived area, etc).
• Visit Cambridge on an open day and tour the different colleges to see which specific one you want to apply to. But don’t stress too much about this decision - I personally don’t know anyone who didn’t end up loving their college, even if they were put there via pooling rather than picking it themselves.
• Get as many eyeballs on your personal statement as possible to check for grammar and spelling. Use your personal statement to showcase your passion for the subject and what you’ve done and learned beyond the national curriculum (eg personal projects, specific topics you’re interested in and have read about). Ensure that you can confidently talk about everything mentioned on your personal statement, because it is likely to be discussed at interview.
• Make sure you don’t miss the UCAS application deadline, it’s earlier for Oxbridge (October) than it is for other universities (January).
• Begin preparing for the admission test and interview early. Particularly for the interview, there is not a specific set of information to be memorised and regurgitated, but rather the interviewer will want to test the applicants ability to flexibly apply a wide range of knowledge to novel questions. They want to hear what thought processes the applicant is using to try to work out the answer, rather than necessarily expecting the correct answer itself. Depending on the question, there might not actually be a ‘correct answer’. This sounds scarier than it is - I actually enjoyed my interview, and so do lots of students. It felt like a puzzle-solving conversation about my favourite subject, rather than an interrogation. Get some teachers to do practice interviews with you beforehand, and practice talking about your subject with family members.
• Make sure you love the subject! If the thought of reading widely about your subject, learning about recent developments and breakthroughs, designing your own experiments, etc, makes you feel interested and excited, then it’s a good pick.

I wish your kids the very best of luck, and remember to keep a positive mindset! Even if only 10% of applicants get in, why shouldn’t they be in that 10%?

I hope this info is helpful for you!

I’m not trying to be negative just realistic. It’s much harder to get in now I am speaking of v recent experience. It’s great to be supportive but making too big a thing of it may be setting up for disappointment. I’ve seen threads on here by parents whose dc are absolutely devastated as it’s been their “one aim” for years.

Much appreciated everyone taking time to give valuable advice and experience.

We will pass all this on in stages, if they remain serious about applying then we will support them of course but if not any additional work they do towards what they want to do won't hurt either way.

They both need to work much harder let's start with that for this year's end of year exams!

Revision guides at the ready.....

Great advice @SteaknSalad

For example, if you want to do a Physics degree, a good A level selection would be Maths, Further Maths, Physics, and Computer Science.

That might be a bit limiting for Cambridge NatSci, where the first year isn't just physics, and indeed quite a lot of would-be physicists change tack during their degree. You need maths plus 'two other science or maths subjects', and by that they mean Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Further Maths. Computer science isn't currently listed.

Yes to Further Maths if offered, as it's bloody hard work doing Cambridge physics without, but I'd choose chemistry to allow a broader choice of first-year options.

But maybe you were less easily distracted by other subjects on offer than I was, SteaknSalad!

How intelligent are they?
Extra curricular activities ?

What has prompted this? There is a TV programme out there about under privileged children getting to Cambridge.

Don't encourage it whole heartedly unless they really are stellar. Likely to crash and burn.

I think the importance of extra curriculars will vary depending on the subject from possibly relevant (eg medical/caring related experience for medicine) to completely irrelevant (DoE and the like). A slight exception would be where the level of extra curriculars when combined with the academic results demonstrates that the applicant has plenty of spare mental capacity.

Eg if an applicant for eg Natsci is evidently spending about 40hrs+ a week on music or sport and still getting top grades, it probably indicates they have what it takes to cope with the demands of a Cambridge degree.

In answer to the question OP - step 1 is top grades in school exams, step 2 is depth of interest in subject - reading around it and thinking independently. Excellent candidates are rejected all the time so keep it chill and make sure you research and get them excited about other excellent universities.

That’s a good point I hadn’t considered because I was personally very focused on my chosen subject (which I did end up getting my degree in) from the beginning.

If you think there’s a chance you might want to switch your degree to, for example, chemistry rather than physics, then choosing to do chemistry A level and picking chemistry as one of your 3 first year science modules would be a good idea. You can see the modules on offer here: https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/natural-sciences-ba-hons-msci

I knew two people who did a 180 within their natsci degrees - one went from aiming to specialise in chemistry to getting a degree in ecology, and the other went from aiming for psychology to getting a degree in biochemistry. The nice thing about the NatSci course at Cambridge is you don’t have to specialise until your final year, so you have time to explore different academic areas before then. (Although some modules will require you to have completed specific modules the year before, or to interview for them.)

To nitpick though, the combination of suggested A-levels above (maths, further maths, physics and compsci) would meet the requirements for studying physical sciences at all of the colleges at Cambridge: https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/natural-sciences-ba-hons-msci This is a good page to check out, it tells you what the most helpful A-level subject combinations are.

But overall I agree with your point @UnkindlyMay , unless you’re 100% committed to physics and are certain you won’t want to specialise in anything else, it’s a good idea to keep your options open and studying Chemistry or Biology at A level will open up more first year modules for you.

Oops, wrong link, this is what I meant to post: https://www.natsci.tripos.cam.ac.uk/prospective-students/admissions

Primarily (for Oxford) admissions tests results and achieved grades.
Performance in interviews if they get that far. Interviews are generally intended to be a test of ability and willingness to think about unfamiliar problems, not a test of existing knowledge, or being particularly articulate, or demonstrating "passion".
Less emphasis on predicted grades and teachers statements because they are so unreliable.
Minimal emphasis on personal statements or extra-curricular activities. Unless you are applying for a choral scholarship. Or medicine. And maybe a few other specific exceptions. There is no such thing as a rowing scholarship.

Pretty much what it says on the websites actually. I've just been a bit more blunt.

They’re so young! Just tell them to do their best and look at options at the appropriate time. Please do what you need to do to lower their expectations-it’s statistically unlikely they’ll get in. And it may not be the best place for them. My best friend went there; I used to visit a lot and I know I would have hated attending there.

Best thing that they can do at this age is work hard in school and find opportunities to explore their academic interests outside of the curriculum.

Though I would caution that Year 8 is still very young and your younger dc should probably keep an open mind about what they want to study. If you'd asked mine in Y8, she'd have probably said history or law or something, but she ended up doing medicine instead. A lot can change in the teen years!

Tell them that's a lovely ambition and encourage back up ideas. My DS has mostly 9s at GCSE, 4 A stars predicted at A Level, a good pass in his entrance exam, and he was rejected from Oxford. It's a huge lottery. He's definitely cleverer than me, and I went to Oxford.

of course it needs to be related to their subject combined with the decent grades. Lots of young people get the grades it’s setting you apart with something extra.
I disproportionally know three people with offers for this year (2 Oxford, 1 Cambridge), each of them have holiday paid jobs in something relating to their subjects as well as volunteer positions.
admittedly none natural science, but it is a related field to one I was offered in (too many moons ago 😂).

An excellent choral or organ scholar or rower might be popular at a smaller college that would welcome the impact they'd have.

The postgraduates are much more attractive as rowers than undergraduates because men in their 20s are much stronger than teenagers. If you look at the blue boats they have all been full of postgrads for years. And anyway, even back in the 90s when I was there the Universities were very anti Mickey Mouse degrees for promising rowers.

I think that Oxbridge is as much about having a mentally robust personality than anything else, I think you've got to be the kind of person who throws yourself at life and doesn't get stressed. I did a DPhil at Oxford and went to a graduate college so a slightly different atmosphere but everyone had a very work hard play hard attitude, far more taking part in societies and sports teams than I experienced as an undergraduate at a top but non-Oxbridge university. It wasn't a stressed out atmosphere at all. My niece just graduated a few years ago and her experience at an undergraduate college sounds similar. Lots of work but also lots of sport and fun.