What's going on in the American Ivy League colleges?

[Primroseoil]

I can't understand what they are hoping to gain?

I would be interested in OP’s answer to this question.

A significant majority of Americans support Israel. The protests have not changed this.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/vast-majority-of-americans-back-israel-over-hamas-poll/ar-AA1nSBu5

Protesting students did ask that they be allowed to Bring in food and water. It seems like a reasonable request

x.com/TPostMillennial/status/178538637675590061 x.com/TPostMillennial/status/178538637675590061]]]]

You can watch the video. The woman suggests that protestors might starve or die of dehydration (they're not prisoners!) and that they want a commitment to the university not 'violently' trying to stop aid getting to the protestors. When asked if that had happened, she said that they wanted a commitment that it wouldn't happen and they hadn't tried it yet (so no).

Making fun of students requesting to be allowed to bring in food is an easy way of sidestepping the reasons behind the protest

It's pretty offensive to position yourself as someone who needs 'humanitarian aid' and to appropriate the language of people in real dire need when you're just camping out at your university.

This 'Palestinian Solidarity Encampment' press release does exactly the same thing. https://x.com/joeyneverjoe/status/1785623560742207882?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g describing their situation as a 'microcosm of the genocide in Gaza' and that the university would 'rather see us dead than divest'.

I mean, FFS.

The law isn't about how people feel. And for this issue, if I were one of those workers I would be on the side of the students, as long as they weren't attacking anyone or being hateful. The response from the authorities is, as usual, entirely authoritarian and out of all proportion.

I think the law might call it false imprisonment. If you don’t care how the staff “feel” then why should anyone care how the protesters feel?

That is a strange way to frame an anti-genocide protest, as people whining about how they feel.

FFS indeed

I'd turn water cannons on the lot if them

I have actually been very wary of pro-Palestine protests since the 7 October attacks. The antisemitic element has been sickening. I also note that people are not protesting about other genocides and atrocities in the world, only this one. The Israel Gaza conflict is a lightning rod for all kinds of prejudices and self-righteousness, principally among the left.

But I genuinely think the majority of students and people attending these protests are responding out of genuine empathy and horror at a clear case of collective punishment against the Palestinian people. And I am horrified that students cannot peacefully protest without being hurled off by the police. It's happening to climate protesters too. Seems like it's only safe to protest if you're wearing a Trump hat.

@Februaryfeels Why would you turn water cannons on them?

Well this is Chicago, 2024. DePaul so not ivy league. But that's academic.

The protests remind me of what took place on American campuses during the Viet Nam war. Taking a stance for what you believe is right, is far, far from being nuts.

If there was actually false imprisonment then that was obviously wrong.
That needs to be established.
Other witnesses are saying that the janitorial staff left shortly after the students entered the building.

You're right, the law isn't about how people feel.

It's about protecting people from actions which have been deemed illegal.

Imprisoning someone is illegal.

It doesn't matter that you would support the students if it was you being imprisoned.

If they genuinely did stop staff from leaving, then that's illegal and they should be charged for that.

Vandalising someone else's building and preventing the owners from being able to use it for whatever legal purposes they wish (eg providing education) are also illegal.

American students have always protested conflicts that their country is involved in. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Gaza. It’s not a question of “not protesting other conflicts” - they are protesting a conflict that their country, and institution, tacitly supports and that they oppose. I’m sure that plenty also support Ukraine too, but there is nothing to protest there - the US government also supports Ukraine.

I'm not saying it is important how I would feel - that was simply a response to the poster who asked me exactly that.

What I mean is there is currently a huge focus on Gaza and Israel in the way there isn't on, say, the genocide in China, which universities are also invested in. There are compoex reasons why this particular conflict gets so much attention, was my point.

complex*

My point is not that illegal acts should not be punished, only that the response from the police and authorities went way beyond what was necessary.

Possibly because there aren't tens of thousands of Uyghurs in American universities. There are tens of thousands of students of Middle Eastern origin, including many of Palestinian descent.

No university is supporting the persecution of the Uyghurs and the US itself has declared it a genocide.

It would be like having protests and sit-ins about Russia's invasion of Ukraine - what would be the point? Everyone already agrees with you.

how do you know though?

What was “necessary” would very much have been a decision based on live events unfolding in front of the authorities and fear of escalation

The quality of education in Ivy League schools has fallen relative to non-Ivy League.
2 reasons
1)cost is prohibitively high now and very clever and high achieving students from middle and lower income families look elsewhere.
2) Academia is no longer the sought after career for graduates and quality of teaching has dropped.

These protests (whilst well intended) are an embarrassment for the colleges. They can't be seen to take sides in the argument but because of social media they look like they have lost control of the situation. The kids look like entitled brats, there is outside agitations involved and the college authorities look inept.

The most galling part of this is that the underlying issue (waning influence of the US with Israel) is becoming more apparent and the protests are highlighting this.

What I mean is there is currently a huge focus on Gaza and Israel in the way there isn't on, say, the genocide in China, which universities are also invested in.

Yes but also China is nominally left wing - if it was a self described right wing dictatorship then I think there would be much more opposition.

They have a right to peaceful protest.

They don't have a right to occupy buildings.
Form encampments or intimate or interfere with the education of other students.

If they feel so strongly about the cause they can do all this but they will risk arrest and suspension.

They seem to want the right to illegal protest without consequence and to be fed while they do so.

They are like 12 year olds LARPING at protest but not being prepared for any real hardship with it.

Saying: I paid for my food so you have to deliver it to me while I illegally occupy your building is pathetically childish.

It's like a petulant child declaring you are going to live in the tree house in the garden because 'it's not fair' then at tea time demanding your mum makes you your dinner.