DS interested in being a lawyer - how to help him?

[Rollingdownland]

DS 16 thinks he's interested in being a lawyer and I want to encourage this and see where it leads. He doesn't know whether he'd like to be a solicitor or barrister and is in the early days of understanding the profession.

He's thinking he might like to study it at uni. I am not a lawyer but remember in my day, it was considered better (?) to do another degree and then a law conversion course. Is this still the case? If so, does it matter what degree you take?

Can anyone recommend a book or website that might help inform him? I feel quite helpless as none of my friends are lawyers (bar my cousin who is a barrister but doesn't speak to the rest of the family any more as he's gone a bit weird so he is no use.)

Thank you!

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/career-advice/becoming-a-solicitor/

https://www.barcouncil.org.uk/becoming-a-barrister.html

There’s various routes into Law. You can do a Law degree (LLB) or do a complete different degree and then a conversion. Conversion is more expensive due to the extra time studying. There are also apprenticeship opportunities. There’s lots of information on UCAS: https://www.ucas.com/explore/subjects/law

For A levels, Law a level is not essential but subjects like English literature, religious studies, history will help to develop the skills needed for a Law degree - lots of reading, essay writing and analysis. Having some work experience, taster lectures taking part in debates/moots look good on the personal statement.

Is he interested in History? Friends who were solicitors both did History degrees and said that most law firms preferred this to a Law degree as History meant that you were able to write well, evaluate, offer evidence in support of an argument, etc. It also gives you more options than a Law degree might do.

I don't know if it has changed, but I'd recommend he considers History as an A level at least.

Thank you all so much for these really interesting thought starters.

He's in Lower Six and not doing history. At his school you could do history or geog for GCSE and he chose geography, (which he regrets). He says he's heard you should do history and is worried he hasn't done it. But he's a bright boy so I'm hoping this won't stop him.

I will pass on all the links you've sent. So helpful, thank you.

Save up! If he wants to be a barrister, a pupilage is horrendously badly paid so he will need financial support for longer than you think. It will pay off in the end but takes a long time to get there.

I'm a solicitor and I don't think it makes a difference whether they do law first or something else. I spoke to a partner about it once who said they like graduates with other degrees because they have alternative skills, a different partner felt it showed an indecisiveness. I have friends who did it both ways.

If you complete a law degree, you can write to a high standard. You don't need a degree in history, economics or English literature to evidence that.

My advice would be that if your son knows he wants to do law, why spend 3 years doing something else? It won't give him a big advantage, if any at all, and he'll gather the extra debt/lose a year (quality later than his cohort) and have to deal with the conversation which I hear is very tricky.

IMO the thing that will give him the best advantage is doing some good extra curricular activities. Training contracts and work placements are super competitive and most people will show up with a 2:1 or higher. Playing sports to a high level, placing in mooting competitions, starting a side business, performing etc are all things that make candidates stick out.

Things have also moved on with qualifying so I'm not sure the conversion course is required anymore, as with training contracts. Although I know a lot of firms are sticking with the more traditional routes.

Might be worth him looking at university courses - from memory WhatUni might help - that way he can work out ones that will accept his potential A level grades, subject choices etc. It's worth looking into, DD wanted to study music all the way along and changed to Sustainable Development - only one of her A levels linked to that, but she found a good course and her first job is in environment but the same ethos so hasn't cut herself off from what she studied.

Ah sorry I made an assumption he was in year 11 as he’s 16. Has he had any careers advice at school? They should be able to help with work experience contacts. There are also online work experience programmes on as well as taster lectures: https://www.springpod.com/

Lots of taster lectures online as well such as this one on negotiation skills: https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/undergraduate/visit/subject-tasters/law

Have to share this whenever someone wants to be a lawyer.
Don't be a lawyer. It's too late for me, he can still save himself.

The great thing about doing an actual Law degree is that you have the time to study some of the more interesting subjects that you miss if you take the purely utilitarian qualifying exams. So if you possess any intellectual curiosity about Law then the degree would be the better option.

I know much has changed in the last 30 years but it’s probably still the case that the very best exam grades will make life much, much easier. Once, pre-tenancy, I took a temp job at the Bar Council sifting pupillage applications - the most sought after invariably went to people with multiple scholarships, 1sts (Oxbridge massively preferred back then) and probably Ivy League postgrad degrees. Plus stellar work experience. Not everyone had those things, obviously - but a sixth former has the option to really strive to get the best qualifications they possibly can, all the way through. It really will help.

If it helps to reassure him - I didn't study history for GCSE or later, and didn't study law at A Level. I did Geography at A Level (and loved it), then read law at Oxbridge. My cohort was quite a mix of law graduates or other degrees. Lots of my fellow law students got training contracts / pupillages, but there's a good mix of degree subjects among qualified lawyers.

My advice is always to focus on picking a degree that you want to study - a law degree doesn't close many doors, but it's not essential to being a lawyer. Uni might your son's last chance for a while to study for the joy of it!

The absolute best song out of hundreds of genuinely amazing other songs!!

hi - I teach law - it is true that there is no advantage in taking a law degree as firms are happy to take all sorts of graduates - but if he is interested in it as a subject rather than just as a career (and there is a world of difference believe me!) then it's a good degree - and can be used for all sorts of other careers if he decides it's not for him. As a pp mentioned the conversion route is longer and potentially more expensive, so I would recommend he looks into getting sponsored if he goes down that route.
This website https://www.lawcareers.net/ has loads of information about how to get started, what the different routes involve, and how to get experience. It also lists all the deadlines for various vac schemes and training positions. It's really helpful.

Suggest he reads The Secret Barrister’s books. He/she is excellent. And study a subject at uni that he enjoys - that maybe law, but doesn’t have to be. Getting top grades is more important.

I think laws a great choice don’t understand that silly negative film.

Very broad discipline. Only a minority become barristers it’s a particular skill set and personal skills most people don’t have. Most become solicitors but so many areas litigation/ corporate/ employment/ family / private client etc.

Dh and I were glad we did law degrees found them very interesting and as I have had a varied career in different areas of law I have been glad I had a thorough grounding in different areas of law from my degree. Doesn’t matter what subjects you do but they need to be “traditional” some law firms quite snooty about non traditional A levels.

If he is interested in being a barrister he should look at the backgrounds/qualifications/experience of the recent recruits at the bar e.g. by googling the chambers in areas of law he may be interested in. It will give him some idea of what he is up against.

I did a law degree and became a solicitor. Even if DS does not become a lawyer, it is a very interesting degree and will stand him in good stead for other careers. I loved my Uni days and loved all the areas of law I studied, even if not used nowadays.

All trainees at my firm were law graduates I had never heard that it is advantageous to do a different degree.

I would add it is very competitive - 20 years ago there were 2000 applicants for 5 training contracts at my firm! I believe it is worse now,

If you have any friends or relatives who might let him do some work experience in any type of law in the holidays this would be great for his CV.

Might have changed since my day but I literally wrote to every small firm I could find and offered my services. I did very basic stuff (so maybe get his typing speed up?) but it looks good.

Of course more formal vacation schemes from the big firms are better and more structured but even a day shadowing in the magistrates court (sit with legal advisor?) for example is better than nothing.

What Ah Biscuits said.

Also, my old firm has halved the number of trainees it take because of AI. It’s super-competitive. My paralegal has a better degree than me and only a small chance of ever qualifying.

Why does he think he wants to be a lawyer? What's motivating him?

Most people I hear that from have a pretty rose-tinted idea of what it's like. A lifetime of recording your entire day in 6-minute increments on timesheets, billable hours targets and business development (i.e. sales) can be a bit shit if you were expecting to be making the world a better place.

If you're on Twitter DM me and he can come to court for a few days.

Unpopular opinion…

encourage him to look elsewhere.
AI is already impacting the field heavily particularly among grad level… my re and more is automated
pay vs effort isn’t great unless you are in the top top group.
most of my friends in law regret it / wouldn’t do it again
as @dreamfield points out it’s not all guts and glory

I also wouldn’t recommend medicine. either.
Based on what I see I’d encourage tech sector and client management roles tend to offer good remuneration vs lifestyle And are fairly future proof

I don’t think you’re alone in what you express, @GreatGateauxsby …

Thanks so much for sharing this, never seen that before and loved it!! 😂😂